Derek Horn
Welcome back to In These Uncertain Times, a podcast about creating and connecting in the midst of Uncertainty. I’m your host, Derek Horn.
Today’s guest, Leah Garlock, believes design problem-solving is as much about actively listening, as it is about aesthetics. As an experience designer and illustrator, she takes a multimedia lens to explore social issues, cultural identity, and narratives on personal growth. Leah earned her BFA in Communications Design and Photography from Syracuse University where she received a grant to explore the cultural identity of Korean American adoptees. Her portfolio includes collaborations with nonprofits like the Center of Urban Pedagogy and Hollaback!, and Adoptee run organizations Also-Known-As, IKAA, Adopteen, and Adoptee Bridge.
Outside of work and personal projects, Leah volunteers as the Communications Manager for Asian Womxn in the Arts, or AWA, an organization that creates celebratory and healing spaces centering the work of womxn and LGBTQIA+ cultural workers in the Asian diaspora.
Since January 2021, Leah has been in South Korea through a Fulbright English Teaching Assistant grant.
Leah and I spoke right at the end of 2020, right before she embarked on her Fulbright journey. We discussed her various personal projects, the ways in which she’s been virtually engaging with her communities, the exploration of her identity as a Korean-American adoptee, and she courageously shares how she has been coping with trauma in the midst of pandemic isolation.
As a heads up, our discussion touches on sexual assault.
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Hi, Leah. Welcome to In These Uncertain Times. How are you doing?
Leah Garlock
I'm doing really well. How are you?
Derek Horn
I’m doing alright. Thank you for joining today. So to get started, can you please introduce yourself to listeners in your own words?
Leah Garlock
Yeah. Hi, everyone. My name is Leah. I go by she/her pronouns. Aas I normally like to begin, I'm currently on Seneca land and my hometown in Rochester. This is always an interesting question when you're asked to talk about yourself, but I think I'm first and foremost, someone who's always really curious and creative, and likes to have really deep empathy for other people through the work that I do. And I like to explore cultural identity, personal identity and I also really and move By personal growth and development, so a lot of the things that I do creatively tend to fall into those categories. Experience designer, multimedia artist, a bunch of other things. But yeah, I like to think of myself as a creative being.
Derek Horn
I love that. You are definitely somebody that has many talents and I that's one of the reasons why I wanted to invite you is because you, even through your numerous personal projects, you kind of have this common thread of empathy, and also kind of personal growth and lots of self-reflection and things like that. And I, I really always admired that about you and I'm excited to chat about how that has been. been going this year. So how would you say that COVID and all the things that have happened this year, have impacted your creativity or anything that you do?
Leah Garlock
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think about this kind of on the daily, just because I think for me, I, especially being in New York City prior to this, I was really used to the hustle and grind of gogogo. And also trying not to, you know, reflect my words, my production and how efficiently and I think was COVID, you know, a lot of that gets like turned on its head, because there's a lot of anxiety that this like period of time gives folks, and I've definitely been feeling it. And with that, I think comes distractions, and sometimes just like, I'm just not in the right headspace to, you know, think through ideas or come up with solutions. And so, I've had to learn how to be more gentle with myself and my timing, learn how to find new ways of being productive. And I think the other thing is, like, you know, really, really trying this time around to separate my worth from like, how efficient and productive I am.
Derek Horn
Totally. Yeah, I think that that is something even from a very young age that we're kind of indoctrinated, indoctrinated to, kind of assess how we're using our time in any sort of way. So I think that this year, especially when the way that we're using our time, and kind of how that is distributed throughout the day, as it's really forced us to, I think, think about some of that stuff, and realize that a lot of the things we're doing before this time weren't necessarily working. And you can't pour from an empty cup. So it's like, putting a pause button on some of those more toxic parts of our culture, I think has been really great to build upon and try something new coming out of that. Yeah,
Leah Garlock
I really agree with that. Yeah, it's, I know, we talked about this, but I don't I'm, when all this is said and done. It's not like we're going back to like the new normal, which is like a weird way of phrasing things. Right. But yeah, there's definitely going to be lessons that I've taken from this time and turn it into, you know, better uses for the future.
Derek Horn
Totally. So what some of the ways that you communicate with the folks in your orbit be people you work with, friends or colleagues, things like that? And if that changed at all, because of this year? Ah,
Leah Garlock
So workwise, you know, that's remained, thankfully, like, relatively the same just from like a slack perspective. But whatI think what has been really interesting is, you know, having to rely on video so much too. So we also use like, Zoom, obviously, Google. And I think, what was it for me, like, I'm so used to meeting in person that like switching over to video sometimes for some of my more internal work, definitely caused, like Zoom fatigue. And I think what was really interesting is like my coworkers, would allow us to like turn off our cameras, which I thought was really nice, because like, regardless if I'm Zoom ready, sometimes I'm just not ready, just like, you know, with writing to constantly be in meetings. So that's definitely something that like, I think, especially in a digital space that we exist in and having to rely on digital communications and video chat, How do we create and foster that environment where it's still a workable environment, still feels kind of intimate, but at the same time provides us some boundaries? Because I definitely think we need boundaries. Very much so.
I think in my personal work, a lot of my friends and I were having weekly meetings, and I think that was definitely a shift too. But I think over time, we've developed sort of a consistency and I read them that's been really nice to have an addition, like, how do we make the most intimate experience of, you know, having conversation like how we are having right now. And, you know, really delving into that energy and figuring out, okay, let's really tweak this or tweak that, especially, we're in more community spaces. But the same time, let's stay connected, you know, on Instagram, and Facebook and various other outlets. And I think it's just about making time to reach out to folks.
Derek Horn
Totally, and I think that, like many things this year, that that communication can be an evolving process, right? Because I think that from the beginning is like, okay, we're not able to be in the office now so we're just gonna copy and paste everything we're doing. And just do it over Zoom now. And I think like you were saying, and many other people like you ended up having this Zoom fatigue, where they're just kind of exhausted by that constant need to, and it's essentially performing online.
Kind of how in many ways, our day to day life star performances, but it's like, even more so where it's like, you have to think about what what is your background look like? What are you wearing? And it's kind of like, how are you constructing your little box In the Zoom grid? And how do you want that to be a reflection of you and your identity? It's kind of interesting. But after a while, that that does get exhausting and that especially since it seems like we're, we're not over this by any means. It's definitely a marathon, not a sprint, it's how do we find new ways that are sustainable in a way and kind of allow folks to be forgiving with themselves and patient and empathetic and things like that. And make sure that there's a very, like, even though we are using these new technologies, making sure that there's a common thread of humanity throughout all of them. If that makes any sense.
Leah Garlock
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like that's really validating to, you know, think of it as like performance, because I think that's where, you know, the exhaustion comes in. A lot of times, for always having to put out our best selves, like all the time, it also like I don't know about you, but I'm even real. Like, when I look at myself in video, it's sometimes very hard and distracting, like, rarely do I ever, like, see myself as I'm speaking. So it can be very distracting. And I think that, like, contributes to the performance aspect, because I'm constantly trying to be like, Am I like, okay, making like, inappropriate expressions for work and all these things? Um, but yeah, I think that's a really interesting shift. That I didn't realize until you said now.
Derek Horn
Yeah, I actually noticed the other day on zoom, they have a new feature. I think it's called, like studio effects or something where you can, like, add these subtle effects to like, your eyebrows, or your lip color, or like, facial hair. I n a way, it seems a little dystopian, but if that's something that I guess folks are interested in playing around with, that's, that's a that's more tools for them, I guess.
Leah Garlock
Yeah. Funny, I actually was like, low-key playing around with them the other day, cuz I was like, Ooh, what's this? Since I'm interested in that AR type of technology. eah, it's definitely, it's interesting.
Derek Horn
So how have you use technology this year to overcome a challenge that's kind of unique to what you do in your work?
Leah Garlock
So I am part of an organization called Asian Womxn in the Arts. And a lot of the work that we do prior is really just about fostering communities in person in New York City, you know, creating safe spaces that really feel intimate because we're able to be all together. And obviously, since you know, COVID, has changed all of that, we've really had to rely on technology to continuing the work that we do through those particular mediums and spaces. And it's been, it's been, it was challenging at first but I think the way we sort of adapted is finding events in particular that we put on that are able to still feel intimate, just by the way that we're able to facilitate them. I think that's really, really important. I think that's actually crucial.
In addition to just the technology, like we have our conversations over Zoom for the our therapy workshops that we put on. But beyond just Zoom itself, and the technology behind that, I think the discussion and the way that we bring people in the way we give people time and space, I think that's crucial to making the technology more useful and overcome the hurdles of Okay, how do I create intimate digital spaces? Now?
Derek Horn
Yeah, that's, that's interesting. That's actually something I wanted to talk about is your work with Asian Womxn in the Arts. And I'm just wondering if you could tell me a little bit more about their mission and if that is shifted at all for the current moment?
Leah Garlock
We are an organization, we became a nonprofit this year, which is exciting. But we celebrate and elevate the voices of Asian women and LGBTQ plus folks in the Asian diaspora. And so the need for this has really come about for trying to champion what we call, instead of creatives, we call them cultural workers. And we like this phrasing better. Because, you know, I think, as a creative, we generally think of particular mediums being attached to being creative. But as a cultural worker, we're actually changing the culture through our work, and through how we see and envision things. And there's a whole, like, M edium article, I can send you to some other time. But I think that is really a greater, better way of talking about the folks in our community, because not all of us are, you know, traditional artists. And I think that also makes the space more inclusive because we're really all about bridging together ideas and people, and in order to have conversations that really matter in our community, and also talk about, you know, work that is so greatly needed, in both spheres, you know, the identities that we come in with, as well as the missions and visions that we're trying to deploy.
Derek Horn
I love that framing of cultural workers, just because they think that you'd like “creative” or “artist” or “designer” or any of these titles that people kind of traditionally bear, it almost feels like there's just by design, they're kind of setup for people to have these insecurities about. “Okay, have I reached the point where I can call myself this title?” Have I? Have I checked all the boxes to earn this title? Am I doing enough to maintain this title and things like that? And I think that, I mean, I think that they're great titles for people to use if they want to, but at the same time, it's like, I do love the framing of cultural workers is more inclusive, and not necessarily bound to those built-in expectations of all those other words.
Leah Garlock
Yeah, definitely. I think you hit it, like spot on, like, that's essentially like the heart of you know why we made that switch. And I think it's been really powerful. And it's also opened the doors for new people on doing our space, you also really need this community too.
Derek Horn
That's great. So you had your Unapologetically Single project of a digital drawing a day a few years ago. And most recently, you've been doing this great Instagram Live series where you interview some of your friends and acquaintances. And one of the things I really admire about them is they do have this common thread of personal growth, reflecting and things like that. So when you're thinking of taking on a new personal project like that, what are the things that you're thinking about? What makes you decide something you want to pursue?
Leah Garlock
I think it varies, but I think let me give specific examples. So for Unapologetically Single, I was moving through a lot of, like personal trauma, and as well as just not feeling the most confident about myself. And I think, in the past, I would allow myself to feel, which I think is great, but I would almost kind of stay stuck in this place of feeling. And, you know, for this particular project, which I think is a theme throughout, what I tried to do in my personal work, is instead of, you know, staying in this place, and having this void, what is the beauty that I can create in this void. So that's where like, gentle accountability in the space, there was a lot of accountability to have to draw every single day, right. But I think that motivated me to change my mindset about the things that I was thinking about, it allowed me the healing space to reflect in a way that was both validating for myself, but I think the confirmation that I got from others was really healing as well.
And I think that's kind of what sparked, you know, projects down the line is that when I not necessarily always have to have to feel a void, but you know, because of this year and missing, my friends are missing having these really deep conversations, I was like, okay, like, let me think of some ways in which I can create sort of a fun engaging space to engage my friends, but then also encourage other people to do the same. And I think that's so important that we create projects that in power and encourage other people to find their truth or explore who they are. And I think just by doing that, for myself, I hope to be a light for others, you know, for their path.
Derek Horn
That's awesome. Like I said, I really admire the work that you do. And just kind of the level of quality it always is, it always makes me stop and think and admire and appreciate everything you put out. So thank you for that.
So I know you have an exciting new chapter on the horizon. I know this January, you're going to South Korea through a Fulbright ETA grant. First off, congratulations. That's super exciting. I was wondering if you wanted to share a little bit more about your journey so far with the Fulbright Program, and kind of what you're looking forward to in this new year?
Leah Garlock
Yeah, thank you so much for your congratulations. That really means a lot. I am really, really blessed and grateful for this opportunity. I think the timing was definitely not what I expected because I was planning on going in July, and then I got pushed back to January. That delay has definitely enabled me to grow and change in a lot of ways. But I think all those lessons that I've learned I know I’m going to apply and know that I'm going to apply to this new chapter. And I think I'm most looking forward to, it's really hard to describe to folks but I have such a genuine like I know something's going to happen and shift in me. I don't know what it is yet but it's probably one of the strongest intuition pulls I've ever had in my life to like literally uproot myself from what I'm comfortable and know really well and just like dive into, you know, a whole different country. I wouldn't say a whole different culture since you know, as a Korean adoptee, I have had avenues of exploring that but, you know, I think my goal is to deepen those cultural roots as well, just by being there and existing in the culture that, you know, I was birthed into.
Derek Horn
That's great. What does that process been like to kind of apply for and receive that grant? That's always something that's been a mystery to me. And I'm sure other people may have had that question as well.
Leah Garlock
So the process for Fulbright was actually pretty daunting at first. But there's a few different ways that you can go about it. And the one that they recommend, instead of applying as an individual applying through your university, and in this case, since I had graduated prior to when I applied, it was my alma mater. And I contacted, I guess she's like part of the scholarship office, I'm not actually sure exactly what her full title is. And she became my advisor throughout the whole process. And, you know, with her help, and then my mom was also an editor, we had to craft two essays, the first being a statement of grant purpose, and the second being a personal statement. And the two kind of informed each other, one where I was talking about my personal experiences that led me to applying for Fulbright. And then the other being the experiences that qualified me for being able to receive this grant.
And it took a really long time, a really, really long time to edit, I was actually like, for one page, one page for each essay, right? It took me about three or four, five, maybe months to write and perfect, and it was just constant revisions and revisions. Because, you know, the great thing about going through your university is, without cheating, they know how to give you the winning ticket. And I was able to sort of craft my original narrative into something that, you know, I was really happy with at the end of the day. And ironically, during this process, that also kind of helped me solidify who I was as a person with the direction I want to go into. So regardless of like, at the time, you know, really hoping I would get it. But at the end of the day, I was like, I'm really happy that I have these essays because they helped inform a part of myself that really needed to kind of had some tangible solidification if you will. And so anyways, the essays were a big part of it. But then, you know, you also had to have a transcript that you submitted, you had to include like, what extracurriculars you did? In this case, I put for college, and then also post-college. And then you had to have various smaller essays, and then language aptitude tests, recommendation letters and interviews. So definitely a process.
Derek Horn
It definitely seems like it has paid off and I'm excited to see what this new chapter holds for you. Just because I think that it's really hearing you talk about how you have this kind of intuition and this pull to take this leap. It really is exciting. And you don't hear too many people talk about those, those types of intuitions, let alone act upon them. So that's incredibly brave, and I'm excited for you.
Leah Garlock
Thank you. That really means a lot.
Derek Horn
Of course. So what has been the most unexpected habit or hobby that you've adopted this year?
Leah Garlock
Honestly, to be really honest with you, this is the most recent, I was not expecting to put out an IG live, it just happened. The hobby of like, I wouldn't really call it a podcast, but a hobby of, you know, creating this type of content just came out of whim because of the conversation I have with a friend that inspired me to put forth this idea. So that was really unexpected, but I have really loved seeing how it has evolved. And I think you said it really well earlier like it really does fit into the themes of reflection and personal growth.
But I think in general, I was not expecting to become a gamer again. I think a lot of us in the quarantine have tried to find new hobbies but playing my Nintendo Switch has definitely become mine. And also crafting like islands on Animal Crossing. And also, I don't know about you, but I was obsessed with Pokemon when I was a kid.
Derek Horn
Oh, me too.
Leah Garlock
I have such a good like team right now I'm very proud. I'm just gonna say that. And that was definitely unexpected because I, you know, prior to COVID, like was thinking about it, but it wasn't something that, you know, I took seriously until I was like, Okay, I think this will be a really great way for me to relax that I also feel will be kind of productive, but I'm also relaxing. So yeah, it's been a nice switch to kind of get back into the gaming world. And with that, I think it's also helped inform some of the interest I have in AR and VR that I've been exploring and taking classes on. So I'm all coming full circle.
Derek Horn
I love that. And I think that, um, yeah, like you're saying, it's like, I think that some people may think of “Oh, gaming as your year, you're wasting away your time” or whatever. But I think that in order to be a whole person that is productive, however, you wanted to find that creative, however, you want to define that, that you can't be doing things 100% of your day, it's like, you really need to find ways to relax and unwind, and even being inspired, like you're saying, with the technology, because I think that because you can't just keep going and going and going in expect this constant high level of output or satisfaction with yourself just because you're just going to run yourself into the ground. And that's not good for yourself. It's not good for anybody around you. So totally supports gaming, and any other pursuits that people might want to have like that.
Leah Garlock
Yeah, someone told me something during this period of time that's really stuck with me, that relates to what you just said. And the way she framed it is that “you don't work to rest, we rest to work.” And that to me, like that slight shift is everything. Because, you know, like I was saying, like I can fall into patterns of being a workaholic, and I'm trying to break those. But knowing that rest is really crucial for what I'm trying to do in my life. The work that I'm trying to do the communities and trying to help really helped allow me the space and time to be okay with taking rest. So
Derek Horn
I love that. And I think that that's something I'll have to tuck away to reframe my own thinking, because I do myself fall into some of those same tendencies of workaholism. And despite my best efforts, sometimes it's easy to fall into old habits.
So have you faced any mental health challenges during this year in quarantine period? And what are some ways that you've coped with them?
Leah Garlock
I think beyond just trying to place, you know, anxiety and feelings of uncertainty and fear, the biggest one for me, like, where it stems from beyond just feeling COVID was, earlier this year, I was sexually assaulted.
And I think, during this quarantine time, having to cope with COVID, and then also heal from this trauma was, is incredibly difficult. Because not only am I facing anxiety from this incident, but you know, we're also in a pandemic, right. And I think I've had to really be gentle on myself. And there was moments where I just had to work. But, you know, just mentally couldn't. And I think, again, going back to those reminders that we don't work to rest, we rest to work and allowing myself that rest and taking those breaks. So if that meant I took some breaks during the day and worked later, when I felt, you know, more safe and productive. That's just how it had to be. And I think defining my own terms, and my timing of things, really helped me cope. And then addition to that, just very grateful for the support network that I have, and the folks in my community that celebrate each small win. And I think the more small wins that we get over time compile into just a developing courage and has brought with that, like a lot of joy and peace and like serenity, and has enabled me to like move through, you know, the highs and lows of healing.
Derek Horn
Yeah, well, thank you, Leah, for sharing that vulnerability with us. I know that that's not easy to open up about that type of trauma. And I know that it, especially this year, it's it's you may have people may have their own kind of ways that they may normally cope with situations and like you said, everything that's been upended this year, it's just compounded on the stress and restrictions and everything else that the pandemic brings. So, I that that sounds like a very challenging process that you went through. But I'm, I'm glad to see you. How do I phrase this? I'm glad to see you find that joy and ways of thriving on the other side of it.
Leah Garlock
Thank you, yeah. I think is really interesting is, and this is what I've learned about myself to you. Not only just from the experiences of this year, but I think I've always been wired this way where work has become my medicine. And it definitely at certain points of this year, like I really like part of my coping mechanism was overworking just because it allowed me time not to think about doing things, right? But then as I was coming into the realizations that I have, what I was doing and why. It was a really important revelation for me to be like, Okay, this is why I do this sometimes. And it shouldn't be like that. So let's, let's be gentle, but like change, change the narrative of it and change the direction of which I put effort into things.
Derek Horn
I'm wondering if you can tell us about a moment of clarity that you may have had that has affected your journey to where you are now and how does that play into the arc of your life?
Leah Garlock
So as a Korean adoptee, feeling in spaces where I'm often in limbo, where I'm not enough of this, but I'm too much of that just on the, you know, observations of how I am perceived when someone first meets me. And I think I would like to say that I never fully let that get to me, but I think as time went on and I, you know, really started to delve more into the history of adoption, adoption in general, talking to my friends about it, I've learned, and the revelation that I made is that we all have to define ourselves, and like, what that means for us. And that, um, being able to do so and like allowing myself to define myself has been really, really healing, it's also just been really eye-opening, because it again, it just creates more empathy for others, you know, regardless of if they can understand what I'm going through, if I can fully understand what they've been through, it allows us the space to exist as we are, and just to continue to love and accept someone or just hold space for someone we don't know. You know, before we come in with our expectations of who they are, like, give them the space to do that themselves. And I think that's been a revelation that increasingly, as I become more comfortable with myself for doing that for myself, it allows me a greater capacity to do that for other people.
Derek Horn
That's amazing. I was wondering if you have any advice for adoptive parents or prospective adoptive parents to allow their children to have that space to explore their cultural identities? And that duality that you spoke of?
Leah Garlock
I think it's really important, especially for trans racial and international adoptees, or even domestic, to acknowledge your child's birth culture, and to give them space, and freedom to explore that, but also give them the choice, right, because I know a lot of my friends, I went to a Korean cultural camp growing up, and I loved it. But some of my friends weren't for it, right. And I think their parents forced them to do it. And I think that can be very dangerous, right, because like, if you're forced to do something you become you, inherently sometimes push further away from it. Yeah. And I think that it's a fine line between encouraging, but also, versus enforcing.
The other thing that I think is really important is if you don't like have the opportunities, or the privilege to find these cultural camps, or find these groups, or the communities and events, is to really allow your child to carve their own spaces and put them in spaces where those opportunities are most likely to happen. Right? My parents chose not to raise me in the suburbs, or some rural community, because, you know, they wanted to raise me in a city where there would be other Asian folks. And I think that's so important because that's not something like a lot of times, a lot of families have to think about in context of their child being different than them. And I think it's everything like it was everything for me, I would be a very different person if I wasn't surrounded by the diversity I had growing up.
Derek Horn
So that's great. Wrapping things up now. Is there anything that you've discovered in this wild year, that may have been a sudden change or an abrupt change or any sort of change that you think that you're looking forward to most keeping going for the long haul?
Leah Garlock
Yes, ironically, it isn't so much of a change as it is me being comfortable with a change that or a lesson that someone has imparted with me years ago. And that lesson was, the more comfortable you can be with uncertainty, the happier you can be right. And at the time, I was like, Okay, yeah, I see how this applies to my day to day like New York is always uncertain. I'm just gonna live in it. But you know, when something like this happens, it's completely like new for everyone and unexpected, it really just reinforces that right? And I think a lot of the things that I had been working really hard for and planning like all my energy and putting all my energy and got completely up routes and I had to be okay with that pivot, but also see the beauty in that pivot too. And, you know, I speak from a, you know, I was able to keep my job. I had a place privilege, I had a safe space. So I want to acknowledge that.
But I think this period of time has allowed me new opportunities and new communities to enter that I didn't even think that I would have the chance to do, you know, within an organization that I volunteered for, or become a part of, and learning how to make the most of where you're at, even if where you're at isn't where you want to be, has been something for me that has just been more reinforced in my life and being comfortable with the uncertainty of having things that you really, really, really want, right? And have them be shifted or not workout. And then what do we do now? But how do we make the most of it? So it's the making the most of it energy that's really carried forward, for me. And I feel really grateful now actually, in a weird way, that I didn't leave in July that I leaving in January, because there's been a lot of healing and beautiful moments that I'm really grateful I have.
Derek Horn
That's amazing. Yeah. And I have to say, if there's ever a summation of what I'm looking to investigate with this podcast, I think you hit the nail on the head is this notion of uncertainty and how, even though this year has been framed as “Oh, it's so uncertain”. Or “Oh, we don't know what's happening.” It's like, that concept is it's been like a pure construction this whole time. And I think, and I hope, I hope that if anything, it equips other folks. No matter what journey they're on, to become a little bit more comfortable with that uncertainty and help them find their ways of navigating and coming through it stronger than ever. So that's great.
And then that being said, as I know that, hopefully it COVID is something that will be this, this mass experience that we're all going through will hopefully be coming to a close sooner rather than later, hopefully. When you imagine that day, that we're on the other side of this, what are you most hopeful for?
Leah Garlock
Are you really hopeful for you know, all of us, like, moving past fear of interacting with other people, either in our families, or our communities, or people who don't look like us. And I'm really looking forward to embracing people without that fear, either literally or figuratively. And I think that's what I'm most hopeful for. And I'm looking forward to just like hugging my grandma without being like “oooh”.
Derek Horn
Well, thank you, again, Leah for joining. Before you leave, is there anything you want to plug? And where can folks find you online?
Leah Garlock
Yes, I am on Instagram. You can follow me at @leah.chi.grace. You can also follow the work we do with AWA or Asian Womxn in the Arts at @connect.awa on Instagram. And then we also have a website, which is connectawa.com. And, you know, we also have Facebook groups, but all that information should be on either the other two platforms.
Derek Horn
Alrighty, well, thank you, Leah. And I hope to talk to you again soon.
Leah Garlock
Thank you so much. I appreciate talking to you today.
Derek Horn
Bye.