Derek Horn
Welcome back to In These Uncertain Times, a podcast about creating and connecting in the midst of uncertainty. I’m your host, Derek Horn.
So a little housekeeping before today’s interview. Since I recorded this interview back in March, my fiancé Joey and I have been in the process of moving from New York City to Orlando, Florida. Like many other people, we have been trying to purchase a home, but faced extreme competition in our two months of shopping and submitting offers, so we will be renting a home for the short term that we will be moving into very soon. Let me just say that moving between states is quite the undertaking, and if you have more stuff than can fit in a suitcase, I recommend you don’t make that decision lightly!
But as this pertains to the podcast, this will be the final regular interview of what I am going to call the first season of In These Uncertain Times. Coming soon, I will have a special episode where Katie Martell makes good on her promise from Episode 1 and puts me in the hot seat for an interview. It’s an awesome interview and I look forward to sharing it with you.
After that, I’m planning on taking a break to settle into our new home in Florida and to plan season 2 for later this year, which would have a brand new series of interviews tracking the new phase of COVID-era life as more normalcy returns.
Now that that is all out of the way, today’s brilliant, multi-talented guest is Deon Mixon, Graphic Designer, Author, Entrepreneur based in Detroit, Michigan.
Deon specializes in brand identity design. He is an alumnus of Cass Tech (2013) and Western Michigan University (2017) with his BFA in Graphic Design. Mixon is a Bill Gates Millennium Scholar, designer of the Detroit Rise Flag (a new flag for the City of Detroit), the author of the Lethal Creed Saga, and creator of the world's premier graphic design education board game, Design Eye. A movieworm, violinist, Naruto and Jason Bourne enthusiast, and practitioner and student of Krav Maga, Spanish, and Japanese, Mixon believes not in creating for himself but in giving great design to the world to help realize and voice ideas for others.
Deon and I have an awesome conversation about his various projects and how he has found time to juggle them.
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Well, thank you for joining today, Deon. How are you doing?
Deon Mixon
Thank you so much, Derek. I'm pretty good. This morning. Glad The sun is out today.
Derek Horn
So to get started, can you please introduce yourself to listeners in your own words?
Deon Mixon
Definitely. So my name is Dr. Mixon, I'm a graphic designer, author and entrepreneur from Detroit, Michigan.
Derek Horn
So I know that one of the big projects that you've been working on the past, at least year I would say I don't know exactly how long is this game called Design Eye? I do want to tell us a little bit about your journey in conceptualizing and creating that.
Deon Mixon
Yeah, definitely. So Design Eye, I was actually one of my thesis ideas at Western Michigan University. And I wanted to create something that will help solve the problem of diversity or the lack of diversity in the design industry. One of my other ideas was like an educational design campaign, but I thought that again, would be more appropriate because we're going to, you know, teach youth or teach anyone something as niche as design or make, try to make that learning experience fun. That's why I chose a game as a format. And then I want to start at the youth because when you start young, then there's more opportunities or just more time for them to be able to really dive into what design is all about, and explore their options and their creative talents or abilities.
So that was the background behind Design Eye. I originally called it something else, it was called GMA Graphic Design Niche Agent. The idea was it was a play on DNA on the designer and you so you have the, which DNA do you have? Are you the branding type or the motion graphic? So, but it was way too technical, way too scientific. After a lot of feedback, I did another name explore that we came to Design Eye. And so that was yeah, that's pretty much how I got started with Design Eye.
Derek Horn
Cool. So if somebody hasn't come across it before, what would you say is the basic premise of the game?
Deon Mixon
See, I always describe Design Eye as the world's premier graphic design education game, which puts you in the mind of a student competing for acceptance into a prestigious design school, you have to build a portfolio by sketching your own ideas and ask them like flashcards educational flash cards, you get points, whoever has the most points, wins the points actually represents your portfolio cards, or a fictional portfolio. And whoever finishes their portfolio is the winner, or they get accepted into that top notch design school.
Derek Horn
That’s awesome. Yeah, I think it's funny. I mean, no, before you were considering potentially doing a potentially a campaign to address this issue. And I think as graphic designers and branding experts, it's kind of that can be kind of one of the first go to things to solve a problem. But I think your game is obviously a bit more of a complex challenge to solve. But it also has, I think, a little bit more lasting impact, because a campaign can be relatively fleeting. And kind of once you see it, you see it, whereas the game is something that can last for years and years and give people an experience that they’ll. member. Yeah. Okay, so, as a board game, I mean, board games are by design meant to be played in person, how has your strategy for promoting it changed in this COVID era when we can't be together and group settings?
Deon Mixon
Yeah, so I definitely had to adapt in some way. Um, so yeah, of course, pre COVID, I was going to a lot of Detroit Public Schools, teaching kids about design and having to play the game, getting feedback. And then once COVID happened, I learned about different online platforms that game designers use to make their game working. One of them is called Tabletopia. So it's like, there's like a free account. And then there's a paid version. But basically, you could recreate your board, your game board with different pieces, typically just uploading a PDF of your design and it rendering for you. And that's pretty much it. So I have like the board, the pawns, the dice, and you can roll dice and move the pawns around. They have like this virtual mouse hand. And so that's what I've been using for people who need to play online or who just want to be able to test out the game before they make a purchase or whatnot. And I've had some pretty good success, I had a couple of gameplays online. But the issue was that I had to manage it all. Because there's just so many different pieces, you got to have your browser set up, you got to so there's a lot to manage those not very ideal, from a holistic standpoint. But yes, it's more of a always consider like a worst case scenario. And yeah, I have had thoughts about an app for Design Eye in the future.
But I'm reconsidering that. Because I don't. Because the design I, you know, again, is intended for the youth, even though I don't want the digital realm being a distraction for them. Let's say they're playing design I in the classroom, like the moment they use a tablet or laptop, whatnot. There's just a lot of opportunities for it to go south. Yeah, not wanting to Google something else or whatnot. So I'm still like, kind of happy to hop on that. But before now, before COVID I made that available the whole Tabletopia version, just in case people really needed to use that method. But yeah, so it's been good so far.
Derek Horn
Nice. Yeah, and I really love and appreciate that Design Eye designed to help the students get learn about and get excited by a career in design and hopefully encourage kids, especially if they're in a school that doesn't have like a strong arts program or anything like that, consider a creative career, but they might not otherwise. And I know overall in our industry, the creative industry, there's been, especially the past year. I mean, it's been a problem that's been obvious for years and years. But this past year, it's been getting attention with various social media campaigns. And I know there was one, that was also a conference as the “Where are the Black Designers?” that have started to call out the industry in an attempt to address this? And I know, I know, a lot of the way people are recruiting or hiring or interviewing people for these design roles. And one of the things that people may come across is this perception “Oh, the candidates just aren’t there.” They're like, “we want to do it, but we can't find these talents that are Black or other people of color.” Do you have any advice for folks in the design industry? Who may be wanting to hire black talent but have the perception that the talent isn't there?
Deon Mixon
Yeah, cuz, cuz I have to look at the question from two angles, because one, like in the mind of an employer, how would they reach out in the mind of looking for a job? How would they inquire? So I know for sure, like, LinkedIn is a great resource and has been a great resource for me. Indeed, is kind of okay. Well, but I think a lot of designers, I guess, in the business context are on LinkedIn, just kind of searching around.
But if I was an employer, I would definitely go to social media, Instagram and just find people just kind of randomly find people or, and like, if they know at least one person of color, that's a designer, then maybe go through their friends lists. I know, that's kind of like lurking but, um, they're like, really searching like, does one way I don't know any other way to like, find designers in general, besides just like Instagram, or Facebook, or whatnot. But yeah, “Where are the Black Designers?” that is such a great platform to be exposed to a bunch of designers, because they have their own Slack channel, and all of that, um, and there's people on there now who are like, my non people of color, who are there to find other people of color. So that's one great resource as new and recent. You know, credentials do matter. But also giving these people a chance, especially if they're, like, fresh out of college, they have their design degree, and they just totally experience. When also posting, so not only like searching on social media, but posting on their social media, I think studios should have a social media presence, and just post like, Hey, we're hiring. I don't know how sensitive it is to say, Hey, we're hiring people of color. Like, I don't know, if that's like limiting, but hey, we're hiring, if you are a person of color, definitely reach out like kind of thing. And really like blasting that and, you know, in the most appropriate manner possible. That would be where I would start. So, so that people know you're looking. But you're looking specifically and you're open specifically for this type of person.
Derek Horn
I know in addition to Design Eye, one of your biggest and probably your most high profile project is your Detroit Rise flag. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? That journey, and kind of where you are now.
Deon Mixon
So the Detroit Rise flag is a new design, a new proposed design for the Detroit flag, and I came up with that idea. That was another thesis idea. I had I Western. And I was inspired by as well as were many others. a TED talk by Roman Mars. He's a podcaster of 99% Invisible and he did a TED talk on bad US City flags and “how they must be stopped.” And, I've watched that dozens of times, and he pretty much dared people to go out and see if their city had a flag. If they do and it was bad that they change it to redesigning it, so that their city could have a better flag, a great flag. There are a lot of different flag principles and flag rules that go into that. But it was really like And a cool thing to think about. And me being a Detroiter, me now being a designer in Detroit, I thought it'd be pretty great to take that task on. And because I don't agree with the current flag of Detroit, and culturally, not many Detroiters even know we have a flag or if they do, they don't really care about it. Because it just doesn't appeal to them. So there's a lot of different, there's a lot of different reasons why it will be, it will make sense to take that challenge off. So I've finished my design in 2017, April 2017. It was my thesis at Western. And I also wrote a booklet that explained my argument and went to the history of Detroit, the current flag and my design. And so I'm, I've been pushing for its adoption since 2017. So really just going out to the community, just pitching it to citizens, and then eventually pitching it to city council, where they've been pretty slow on that process, and like supporting me, or just putting people in front of me to follow up with me. Um, but recently, one of the council members did send a secretary to me to talk about, like, just getting more community engagement, that was like the key word he used. So really just getting more citizens behind it. Um, and the way I interpreted his advice was that if, you know, if I have enough people, enough Detroiters behind it, then that gives them the city council members more reason to make this a more serious topic on the agenda. So that was kind of what I got from that meeting, which was a couple of weeks ago. So since 2017, I've mainly just been going downtown and flying a flag around walking up to people tell them about it. Hey, did you know we had a flag and this and that, and then getting signatures. The signatures aren't as effective as actually seeing the flag on your person or just on your house and that kind of thing. And nowadays, well, now that COVID is here is hard for me to like, be out doing that again. But when things are better, I definitely will go to other neighborhoods, not just downtown Detroit. And so that's and I'm just, you know, one man, I still need to have like a team of boots on the ground.
Like I have family friends who support here and there what is not as you know, consistent so those have been like some like challenges. I do have a lot of like support in the grand scheme, the grand community of flag lovers, Detroiters, Detroit lovers, people who support it via you know, shouting it out on social media or, you know, putting your signature or whatnot. But what I'm really trying to get people to do is actually get the flag, it doesn't have to be the five-foot flag, it could be a 12-inch flag or a sticker or whatnot. Just something so that people can see it in the day to day and then gradually the equity builds and then, you know, we get more success that way. So it's been fun. It's been a lot of fun.
I'm never going to stop until you know, it's official. In the end, even if it becomes the unofficial official new flag. That would be another checkpoint of success for me too. And of course, for Detroiters, something similar is pretty much what happened with Milwaukee. There's nothing like Steve Kodis, he initiated a flag change from Milwaukee, he and other citizens took it upon themselves to do their own process to have judges and everything and competition. And then they chose a flag, but their city council still hasn't did a formal session to make it official. So I'm trying to prevent that. But you know, that's, that's difficult. But um, yeah, it's like it really, it really takes time, depending on the culture of the city, the politics of that particular city. So in my case, Detroit is, you know, relatively big there. Unfortunately, they, the citizens in the city council, they're not very design minded, even though a part of Detroit culture is design minded. I wear the UNESCO city of design and all of that. So there's a lot of different walls I have to climb over to get people to understand. Yeah, this matters, here's why.
Derek Horn
So obviously, podcasts are audio form so people can't see the flag, but can you do your best to maybe describe it and let us know maybe what you were trying to capture with it?
Deon Mixon
Yeah, definitely kind of want to get into the current flag to just put some visuals up there. So the current flag would be trade, which is the first leg of the trip. Right is divided into four quadrants, so four corners. The top left and bottom right corners has Stars and Stripes, on black and red and white. The bottom left and top right corners have fluidity, which are symbols of France. And then go lions, which are symbols of Great Britain. And these four quadrants basically just represent those countries that founded Detroit, French, and occupied Detroit during the American Revolutionary War on French and Indian War. In the center of this four quadrant flag is the city CEO, which commemorates the fire of 1805 that burned down the city of Detroit. And that's pretty much where we get a lot of our rising from the ashes from. So as the CEO of two women, one woman pointing to a burn down city to the left, on another one, I'm pointing to a city built anew and the city model in Latin, we hope for better things, it'll rise from the ashes.
So that's the current flag of Detroit, the new flag I design is literally a star top left corner, a triangle, or a line crossing cross crossing across, so like a diagonal line to make a triangle, a black triangle, and then a curved form, a white curved form, and then the resulting negative spaces a blue shape. So the flag is three parts black and blue with the star. And that pretty much represents Detroit and three ways. So the rising form is actually a symbol for the river. Because Detroit is named after the river and established off the Detroit River. So Detroit comes from the French Détroit, which means the straight and the straight is the Detroit River.
Second, it captures the city motto. So we hope for better things or rise from the ashes. So if you look at the trade, geographically, the river looks like an ascending pathway. So that curving form is the rising from struggles, but it's also point three, a path toward the better things. So I figured that the river was a perfect symbol element to represent all those things Detroit, as well as the history. So I don't want to say one size fits all, but it does the job for all these has a lot of legs while these different things. Um, and then the star is the industrial star, the points of the star represent Detroit's most successful industries. Music, the auto industry, Art and Design, life science or medicine, and high technology, like manufacturing. And black is for resilience, white for righteousness, blue for progression, also for blue collar, because we're a very blue collar city, and also for our climate, we're a very cool and cold climate city. So that's the Detroit Rse flag.
And also want to add that naming of the Detroit Rise not just because of the city model, rise from the ashes, but also because of our educational history, there's a lot of stuff in DPS, Detroit Public Schools, their motto is like students “we all rise”. So there's always been this whole rising idea. And I thought that was another thing to make it more appropriate or more fitting for this flag to show a rising that and, you know, that resilience, you know, rising from our trade relations from our past and being better. And so I don't think the current flag has any of that or does it does any justice for that big idea of who Detroiters are, what we're about and what we're looking ahead to in the future. So that's the Detroit Rise.
Derek Horn
Yeah, it's got such a bold and very timeless look to it. I actually just googled the current one just to refresh my memory, and that is something. But I googled the Detroit flag in you and the Detroit Rise on the first line of results. So yeah, it seems like some good progress at least.
Deon Mixon
I was really excited. One of my friends saw that I was in a Wikipedia page for Detroit.
Derek Horn
Oh, wow.
Deon Mixon
I was like, Oh, sweet. And, and so yeah, I guess that's five years of banging on people's heads about this. And, yes, it's exciting. It's just another checkpoint really.
Derek Horn
So let's go all the way I get. Yeah, I really appreciate that tenacity that you have to make this as I know many people would have thrown in the towel by now. But what is there anything that you've learned in the process of talking to so many people and advocating for this design that you believe in so strongly throughout the years?
Deon Mixon
Let's see. So, I think that because there are different types of Detroiters. I mean, obviously, everyone has different beliefs and values or whatnot. But there are like different comment threads. Because a part of my research was asking people, what colors come to mind we think, would Detroit or what would you say Detroit's greatest qualities are and so resilience was like, top number one are hardworking, the grit, all that good stuff. And, and I was I think the way cuz I have a sort of a script in my head when I walk up to people and just the way I break it down and because the Detroit Rise is a simple design, and I pack in a lot of concepts and history into it. And how I contrast that with the current flag. I think that's a good selling point.
So for me, just knowing how to articulate the difference between the current and the new flag and why we need a new flag. And, and I will often say like, it's not just about the flag when it's about the brand identity of Detroit in general, on a greater scale, and also on how it can flex so I don't know if you've seen,I call it the Detroit Tricolor, how have the black, white blue square with the star. So, there are scenarios where you can condense the proportions of the flag to just those three colors, and it still maintain that equity, and can obviously be implemented across different design systems in Detroit.
You know, it will invigorate Detroit tourism, like there is not really a tourist store in Detroit like to get Detroit stuff, they're just different stores, there's no cohesion, really. Um, so I start to, depending on who I'm talking to, I start to get into all of that. They're still listening. Um, but as far as non-Detroiters, like they're just designers or flag lovers, they pretty much fall in love with it once they do more research into it. There have been people, there have been people who used to live in Detroit, and now they live abroad. Like there's a guy in Germany who has the flat Detroit, right? Maybe there's someone in the state of Washington who has the flag. So there's like, a lot of different ways people really gravitate to it, whether they were from Detroit or move a lot of different associations.
But definitely learning about the political side of it. Um, there's some I know somewhere, but I actually spoke to Ted Kay, he's the secretary of NAVA, the North American Vexillological Association. So they're like NASA for flags. And he gave me some advice on how to talk to political people. So he was like, three, there are three things for sure about politicians. One, they want to make people happy, two. They don't want to make people unhappy. And three, they don't want to spend money. And that is so true.
And it's like, and I've gotten, every time I talk to a city official, I always get those vibes like, like some of them may be interested in this vendor. Like they're thinking they're just hung up on. Okay, how much is this going to cost to validate? If we because they are, you know, still Detroiters? I call them unbelievers, they don't, they just, they don't really have much of an argument. They just want to keep the current flag just because it's there. And then the other guy who does believe like, they're like, yeah, the current flag is trash, or it just doesn't resonate with me, or I don't resonate with it. And we need something new, we're supposed to be so progressive, why aren't we acting on it? Um, and so you're going to have that population of unhappy and happy citizens and whatnot? Well, if you look at obviously, for me, if you look at the bigger impact, like what has, I guess, a return on our investment, that will pay off everyone. And so just really learning how to communicate to those people in that political realm? Was something I definitely learned. And learning more about it. So. Yeah, and just navigating those waters, because they are very touchy, difficult waters.
Derek Horn
Yeah, totally. I mean, even I think it was kind of a trend and any sort of design when you redesign something. I mean, even if people aren't necessarily in love with it in the first place, once they find out, oh, this is different. Here's a very new, redesigned thing. It's like there's this instinctual reaction to people to resist that change just for the sake of it, so I can see how there might be that element of things that the politicians might be navigating as well.
So obviously between Design Eye, Detroit Rise, you've written several books. He has such an infectious passion for your various projects and different ventures? Do you have any advice for people that have ideas that they want to act on? And they want to strike a balance with work and home life and everything else going on?
Deon Mixon
Yeah, so I would definitely say time management. And I don't even think of time management often, because I guess I've been doing it instinctively for so long. But on that, especially with the books, like I've come across so many people who say, yeah, I've had ideas to write a book, and I just haven't gotten to it, I'm like, well, you can still do it, why you just gotta make this. I do believe it is true that people make time for, you know, what they want to make time for. But yeah, it can be difficult, um, but is, is not impossible. So I will say, if you first of all, if you have an idea, and you believe in yourself, believe in your ideas, believe, you know, just start off with a sketch, believe it could be a thing, I'm, I'm really into really seeing if my idea will work. But I gotta start somewhere, right. And as I'm, once you start, then that's that you get the ball rolling, then there's kind of a, there's a victory right there, there's one chunk of that victory dance. And, and so really, I mean, I'm just, I'm a self motivated person, too. So it's very easy for me to, like, have an idea. So I see sort of the finished product or version of it, really just start working on it, or just figuring out Alright, what's on my calendar, when can I work on this? It’s sort of like making myself like, get to it, whether it's a sketch, or jotting notes or doing some Google searches or research or whatnot. Um, because like, if you don't do any of that, then it's just going to be this lingering idea, and that might make you moody or whatnot.
So like, don't be a naysayer of yourself. So really believe in yourself. Also, time management in a second. Don't be afraid to get feedback from peers, or close friends. Because Yeah, you might think, you know, your idea is the greatest thing ever. But you still want if it's if it's meant to be, you know, targeted to other people, you want to make sure other people agree with you. Because they still have valid insight, if your end goal is to have a for other people. So I would say you’re always gonna have the people who agree and people who disagree, so don't be afraid about that, either. That's just the way life is. Um, let's see what else time management, believing in yourself. And I believe in creating things that make an impact. So like, my philosophy, if you will, on my site, I say, I'm not about making a mark, I'm about making a point. And so our translation of that is not about making an impression, while making impact more than anything. So I like to design things that really see some type of problem or help solve a problem. So Design Eye, you know, the problem is there's a lack of diversity in the design industry, how do we increase those numbers? Well, what if you made a game to teach youth of color about design so that they are interested young, and then they take it up in high school, then they take it off slowly in college, so that kind of thing. And me as a designer, that's just my way of contributing to the world through design, and I think that's very profound.
And so having something if you have an idea you're passionate about, like, make it something that could create an impact for you, for others. So like, I want to make selfless design, if you will, um, you know, the Human Centered Design. So I think that's the best type of design, because if you design for the hearts of others, like, there's nothing greater than that. Because, you know, it's all about, you know, connections and relationships and the piece of, you know, everyone via, you know, what you create the ideas you share, or the ideas of others that you share to the world.
Derek Horn
Totally. Yeah, I love that. And I think as designers we have such a unique opportunity to, I think that graphic designers don't get a fair shake a lot of time. It's like, oh, you're typing all fonts and picking colors and this kind of basic thing. I can download Photoshop, and I can do that. But there really is this unique ability that I think good designers have is a skill to see a challenge. See, like you said, see the finished product or the finished result, and be able to use design to connect those threads and try to solve that problem through visuals or experiences, things like that.
So, is there anything that you've discovered about your process during this year of COVID, when we've been confined to our homes for so much of it, that you want to keep going for the long haul, even if we do return to some sense of normalcy,
Deon Mixon
Nothing has changed much. I mean, so with my studio job, I've been working from home since March 12. So it's been a year now officially eight days. And it was first it was like, really love/hate is still sort of love hate, but I think I'm spoiled now.
So in the beginning, you know, obviously, being used to driving into work, and being at home, is just having work at your home, like, I don't like that, that. Um, because at home, I want to work on my own stuff. And so that was like a challenge of like, resisting the urge to work on my own stuff, while I work on whatever for a client and, oh, what I, you know, I did my thing, and, you know, came on strong, a lot of different project winds. And it's been pretty smooth. And whenever my plate is light at work, I'll probably read up into, I don't know, some project brief or read some articles. I do a lot of self-education, too. So I'm not just kind of sitting here. But for me personally, like outside of work. I'm a homebody too, anyway. And so and there's ideas always floating around, whether they're my ideas, or the ideas of others may meet, they want my services. I have a system. And that's another thing, like, for people who have ideas, like have a system of your own process, I call it system. Because there are, there's an approach. It pretty much is I have my work Mac, and I have my personal Mac. And I have a stack of paper right here in case I need to start sketching something. Because I've always been indoors, basically, like, COVID hasn't affected me much, as far as being able to travel places for me to do my work. And so, because of that, like, I've been pretty, okay. Um, I mean, sometimes, I guess, in the context of my studio job, like being in a studio to have more interactive working sessions, or whatnot, pinning stuff on a wall. So there, I lose that element. But we've been having a great experience, you know, using Google Meet, or Zoom to communicate, to drop in notes in our Google Chat or whatever, and screen share. So just, I think adapting works. And I think as designers, as creatives, we need to be able to do that. And I think, you know, pandemic is a great testament to how different industries have to adapt for their audiences. Yeah, so it was, I think we're in a pretty great industry. Just, I haven't had any major issues or any issues at all. Really? Um, so. Um, yeah, that's about it.
Derek Horn
Yeah, it's like this past year has just accelerated a lot of the trends that we're kind of creeping towards anyway. And that's wild, it's wild to think back. Because it really is, there really is no going back. I feel at this point. It's like, so many of the things we've done, I think that this idea of having the flexibility to work from home and kind of not needing to be in an office space for 40 hours a week. I think that that whole thing is behind us. So I think it's designers that I think is a great as well. I think that just gives people more flexibility to work where they want, and in settings and inspire them to get comfortable and have the creativity flowing, things like that.
Deon Mixon
Yeah, unfortunately, in my studio, they're really good with flexibility. So like, let's say our plate is light, like, we're encouraged to step outside, take a walk, or I run an errand or to whatnot and come back to your desk. As long as the work gets done, basically, of course, it was encouraged. So I really loved that as well. Also, That's dope.
Derek Horn
So, are there any misconceptions that people have about you or your work or people like you and what are they getting wrong?
Deon Mixon
Not that I know of. Only the only thing I can think of is with the flag. So when I first was getting press about the Detroit Rise flag, some people thought I was a white guy, which is funny. Because then that opens a can of worms, worms about the perception of the design industry in the perception of a designer. Which I think growing up, I have the same perception that Oh, design is like a white thing. Like, that's a white man's career or whatnot. And then as I started to see that, oh, anyone can be an artist, anyone can be a designer. Obviously, it is not limited to, you know, this group of people. So as an adult, when I, when I was first when I first heard that people thought, like, who is this white guy, redesigning the Detroit flag, and because that goes into a deep like culture thing of, because he charges a real tight about, if you're not from Detroit, don’t say you’re from Detroit, bla bla bla bla bla. And yeah, historically, when I do trade became predominantly black after the 50s 60s. And I'm, too typically, and because the trick, in my opinion, a lot of Black Detroiters they're not as design conscious. But a lot of white Detroiters are, are just white people in general. And because white people dominate the design industry. So there's all of those factors that play into it. So when I heard that I was like, oh, my goodness, what the heck, I didn't think I would have like, address this topic. So then once they saw that I was Black, they're like, oh, it really shifted their whole perception of the project. And some people leaned in more to listen, why is that? That's, you know, that's a bigger racial topic. And so that was like, interesting to note. And so, um, once I kind of got once people knew, then they're like, now they're looking at my age. Okay, this guy, he’s young, the millennials, I was like, Okay, now. You gotta go through to approve, or at least not. So, um, that would be the only misconception or misinterpretation of me. I haven't had any other issues or encounters like that, that I can think of. But that definitely was one that stood out.
And I, you know, I've addressed a lot of those topics and questions. So people who are aware of me know, me, they, they know what my position is, and where I stand. So, um, but um, I can't think of anything else negative. My life record in general, has been pretty great. Like, I don't know, I have a major scholarship, the Bill Gates scholarship, I don't have any student debt. And you know, Detroit kid, Cass Tech, you know, best High School in Detroit. So all these different credentials, so that, you know, carries a certain perception. For those who are learning more about me, it's sort of like, what's next? And what's next? And like, what else is he doing in the community or whatnot? So it's just a gradual reputation building. I guess I'm just being more in a community because I'm really in quite the education world now, too. So. But I haven't unfortunately, I haven't had any bad encounters or whatnot.
Derek Horn
Well, I'm sure that you are, as your profiles rising in Detroit and across the country, even with some of this discovered you've been getting, I'm hoping that you are just one more role model that young kids can look up to is a model for creativity, a model for a creative career and design or whatever dream they want to follow, because I think that is truly so sad how there is this perception that design is a white man's career, because I mean, we all experienced design, everybody. shops in the store, everybody drives down the highway looking at signs, everybody read up on the restaurant menu. So I think that the more the more different types of people that are contributing those designs for the world. I think it just becomes a richer place for everybody.
Deon Mixon
Yes, definitely. And I was gonna say the only like, when I think of Eddie Opara, Designer from Pentagram, he's from yeah, he's from England, but like, he's the only person I could think of as like a major POC role model. I had no idea I was gonna Create a board game right books like that was not in my, in my vision. But now that I'm here like, I definitely want to be one of those like role models or figures, who, you know who is someone that younger kids of color can look up to, and see that as possible, the same reason people gonna look up to Kamala Harris and Barack Obama, like, yes, it's possible for me, with my skin to be you know, the next president, whatnot.
Derek Horn
Are there any memorable moments of clarity that you've had in your journey to where you are now that have set off something in your mind? And if so, how have they impacted your journey to where you are now?
Deon Mixon
Well, mental clarity. I was say, this like a yes and a no. Um, like, I've kind of operated the same for my, like, projects and stuff, or just school work life. Um, but I think as of, and I've been pretty mature, like, just even when I was younger, but I think one moment of clarity is, especially in my freelance, just being able to be more pleasant and how I communicate certain recommendations, because I've been called blunt before, because that's just like a part of me, but it's never, you know, with any ill will. But I don't like to sugarcoat anything. So in the context of people who have ideas, you know, you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. And if we grew up through critique, and, you know, experience, and I learned from that, so I guess I'm on a clarity would be just getting better at articulating certain critique statements, or certain things that could, what I'm trying to do is help them improve on their idea where I don't want to offend or, like, come off, as if I'm saying that their idea is trash, or it's just not it or whatnot. So really just kind of improving online communication, I haven't had any issues. And people who know, who know me, when they vouch for me to other people, they already kind of give them a download, that I'm going to give them the real, I'm going to show them away, when to educate them, like a professional. So like, that helps too, but I want to maintain that clean communication, so that no one ever gets offended or feel like I'm driving or taking control of their baby, I always want to be respectful.
And so I can't think of any other moments of clarity. Besides, I mean, this is sort of like, I don't know if this is a tangent, but I'm a very thorough person. And you know, that and a lot, a lot of people may not be as thorough and so some people are overwhelmed by how much detail and how much thought can go into something. So I always want to encourage people to think big, because otherwise, why do it? Um, especially if you say, I want to start this business. And one of my first questions is, okay, well, what's your vision? How far do you want to take it? And you just want to stay local? Like, well, how do you intend to grow? Because what's the point of having a business if you are not going to grow? And so just knowing how to, I guess, be patient with people and digesting the information, I will give them the expertise I will give them. I really, I love educating people. But I always break it up into pieces so that it's not just at once I'm really, I guess, knowing how to better talk to people from that angle, talk to people who may not be aware at all, how much can go into a brand or whatever idea, making an idea visual. So there'll be a moment of clarity like everybody is not like me, everybody doesn't think, as like me. So just being conscious and considerate of that is a moment of clarity.
Derek Horn
You got to meet people where they're at. So is there anything that's important to you that you think society should be paying more attention to?
Deon Mixon
Yeah, I think society should be paying more attention to design, specifically good design, I don't think there's a lot of appreciation for what really goes into design and how it impacts our daily lives, um, is often a, what I call an overlook, or afterthought. Because we know we interact with so many different brands and design systems, you know, and you're the training system, the map, on the cue, the yellow line, all these different things that people don't really peep and understand that are really important. And I feel like if people had a better consciousness, for design, that they would view many other systems way better with more empathy. And, and then I think there's maturity involved in that. Basically, if they appreciate a good design, they will not will not take things for granted. Yeah. And when I treat, treat other things as whatever these are, you know, a human was behind this. And so really having that kind of human mindset, I think, is really important.
Derek Horn
Totally there's this old adage, where it's like, the best design is the design that you don't even think about. Like sometimes you don't even realize that something is designed until it's crappy and isn't working for you. So it's like this, this tricky thing where it's like, you don't want people to be constantly thinking about, oh, I'm in a world where every single little thing is designed, but at the same time, it's like you do want people to have that appreciation for what makes that possible.
Deon Mixon
Yeah, for sure.
Derek Horn
So wrapping things up one day, hopefully soon, this pandemic will be in the rearview mirror. When you think of that day. What are you most hopeful for?
Deon Mixon
First answer, going to the freakin’ movie theaters. I miss going. And so on a basic note that the movie theaters. I'm a movie worm, I just love movies. I love the experience. You know, obviously a high quality I miss going to the Alamo. Rest in peace to the Alamo that was in Kalamazoo, Michigan. But um, and yeah, the movie theaters first. Second, yeah, just definitely being around family more. I do want to get more traveling at my current age, in my 20s I'm always sort of still a thing, but we're taking advantage of those prices, but it's still kind of tough, you know, all different restrictions everywhere. But I would say like there's something about even though I'm a homebody, there is something about being able to go where you want to go and not have any issues or having to prepare certain things, having to remember I've got to wear my mask. So yeah, yeah, like not having to wear my mask, even though I'm fine wearing it but like the extremists I guess they say its such an attack on freedom. But for me, it's like not wearing a mask. Like, you get that freedom you can breathe and whatnot. My glasses get foggy. But, there's like a sense of, yeah, that normalcy or things that were before. I think I would be looking forward to that. But um, and that's probably like a basic note, but I'm just not being confined to certain things like because everything is limited as far as activities you can do. So yeah, the disaster question.
Derek Horn
Yeah. I totally agree with you about the movies that are something that even my fiance we would go to almost every week before events.
Derek Horn
Yeah, it's wild how much time has passed, even like starting to forget some of those small things about the pre pandemic period. But um, thank you so much for your time today. If people want to find you online and learn more about your projects where can they head?
Deon Mixon
Definitely they can go to deonmixon.com there. If they want to check out design, I got a designeyegame.com calm and if they want to check out the Detroit rise flag, head to detroitriseflag.com. So making it really easy to remember everything can be accessed through DeonMixon.com and you can follow me on social @deonmixon. And yeah, that's about it.
Derek Horn
Nice. You really lucked out with those handles and URLs. Very simple and to the point.
Deon Mixon
So the flag is actually @detroitriseflag_ because for some reason I can't remove the underscores. So I'm gonna play with that sometime in the future again, but we everything is just really clean. @deonmixon, @detroitriseflag_, @designeyegame. The books, @lethalcreedsaga. I haven't talked a lot about books because it's like another thing that's on pause. But action adventure, military, sci fi so for those who are into that, check it out. Once again, all at deonmixon.com
Derek Horn
Well, well, thank you so much. And I hope to talk to you again soon.
Deon Mixon
Thanks again, man.