Episode #3 - Courtnee Futch on Creative Currency & Southern Hospitality
Derek Horn:
Welcome back to In These Uncertain Times, a podcast about creating and connecting in the midst of uncertainty. I’m your host, Derek Horn.
Like a warm drink on a cold day, today’s guest, Courtnee Futch, has the special ability to draw you in and melt away your worries. I met her when we were freshmen in college and from day 1, I knew she was destined for great things.
Courtnee is a chef, baker, author and entrepreneur based in Jersey CIty and believes that the best food is meant to feel like home. The Atlanta native has been baking and cooking professionally since the age of 17, when she founded ThunderCakes Bakery and years later founding The Spred Catering Company. To complement her love of food, Courtnee also trained as a mixologist in Paris. To her, craft cocktail pairings serve as the final frill in a well-rounded dining experience.
In her first cookbook, Early Enough, Courtnee encourages home chefs of all levels to get experimental with their brunch palette while using accessible ingredients.
We have an insightful conversation about how she’s making cooking accessible, making the most of the resources you have, and how we should start giving ourselves permission and stop gatekeeping our potential. We wrap up with some great advice about how we can all bring a dose of Southern Hospitality to our daily lives.
Pour yourself a drink, grab a snack, and settle in for a great conversation.
Derek Horn:
Well welcome, Courtnee, how are you today?
Courtnee Futch:
Hey, Derek. I'm good. How are you?
Derek Horn:
Doing well, thank you for joining. So let's get right into it. So can you start off by telling our listeners about what you do in your own words?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah, sure thing. So I am the chef and owner at ThunderCakes bakery, as well as The Spred catering company. Thundercakes has been around for the last eight years. I started off in the pastry world as kind of balls to the wall, you know, young college entrepreneur wanting to just bake, but also to generate some income. And what that has evolved into is a little bit more of the food personality space. So it's transformed into some teaching from me, which has been really incredible. I've been focusing on that a lot over the last six, seven months or so. And in addition to that pre COVID, I was hosting dinner parties pretty much on an every other weekly basis for anywhere between 20 to 50 folks at a time. So that is where the catering side of the business kind of came into play. And now I've kind of shifted away a little bit from the physical exertion of dinner parties and baking, and really moved more into the teaching and food education space.
Derek Horn:
That's so awesome. Yeah. It's been really incredible seeing you build your brand or multiple brands, over the past. nearly 10 years. We met when we were freshmen in college at Syracuse and I have just really warm memories of seeing your Facebook posts saying that you're, you're selling your treats and then we'd come up to your room to buy them from you late at night. So even back in those days, I just knew that you had this spark to you and in both your personality and your work ethic. So it's no surprise to me that you're killing it right now.
Courtnee Futch:
Aww, thanks Derek. That means a lot. That's been a really interesting transition. I think I've learned a lot about myself, maybe more in the year of 2020 than I have in any other year about the vision that I have for myself both in my career, but then also in my passions and the way that they overlap with each other. And, and figuring out the ways that I don't want them to overlap, but that's been a sort of constant negotiation of how much physical labor am I willing to put into this work, how exhaustive this process can be, and then kind of balancing that with my love for it. And recognizing that it was the exertion of physical labor, it was baking the cakes. It was the catering of events and spending hours in the kitchen you know, prepping for 50 people to come over and have dinner that has kind of given me the education in food that I needed to be able to pass that on so I could kind of transition my career and my passions. So I'm very, very blessed to have those things intertwined in the way that they do. It's a really funky amalgamation of like all of my favorite things, which I've been loving.
And yeah, it's been keeping me really grounded. So I'm thankful for that. I'm always so appreciative of the people who have been here, like you were here, like you were, in fact, if I'm remembering correctly, it was you and Lucy and Malcolm who came up and were like the first people to actually try the first ThunderCakes item that was ever done. So it's just been like really incredible. And then to have people who were kind of there to remind me of how far all of this has really come, because I was doing this out of an easy bake oven pretty much.
Derek Horn:
Yeah, well, it's an honor to be a part of history!
So how has COVID force you to adapt your process? Obviously, someone that's so invested in this brand of hospitality and sharing food and drink with people, obviously being on down in quarantine, kind of throws a wrench in that a little bit.
Courtnee Futch:
Right. gosh, I think, you know, first I have to start by saying that I think the blessing in it for me is that there is significantly more flexibility and being like an independent owner operator than there is in you know, having this sort of brick and mortar obligations.
My heart really goes out to the restaurant industry because of course there are people who love food and the only way that they're able to translate that is, you know, back of the house you know, on the line cooking for folks in a restaurant space. So I know that that was incredibly devastating, even as someone who just has a lot of love for the restaurant industry to see. So I'm incredibly thankful for the fact that, that one, I did have the ability to pivot, I think a lot more quickly than some entrepreneurs have the ability to do.
I immediately put ThunderCakes on hold. So that was thing number one, like March 15th, when they shut everything down. And I was like, okay, I'd really just reopened ThunderCakes kind of at the top of the year. I'd been taking very periodic sabbaticals, very random sabbaticals as well from ThunderCakes because I am still working full time. And the logistics, like the logistical and creative labor that goes into baking and having to arrange delivering things for like a cake that costs like $35, but it's just me. The time that gets spent doing that was really not worth the, the sort of like scattered profit. So that was something I knew immediately. I was like delivering cakes right now is one too risky anyway, right. Because I'm coming in contact with way too many people.
I also knew the dinner parties were, of course, going to have to go on hold. And I was very okay with that. Because what I had really been wanting to do was kind of get into the food content creation space. And a really funny thing kind of happened for me, not even two weeks before COVID, which was we shot my Glamour video. And so the Glamour video didn't come out, and the Glamour video for those of you who are listening was just like this really cool, Glamour was looking, there were like, they'd hosted like a casting call kind of, and just look on the internet. We're looking for, you know, chefs, artists, creatives who had really interesting spaces and would be willing to talk about their finances on the interwebs for everybody to pick apart.
And I like reached out somebody shared it with me. I'm like, yeah, I'm a chef. And like, here's what I do when I host dinner parties here in my home and I sent them a video of my house and they were like, Oh, this is really cool. So that process all happened in under a week. We I sent them an email, we did a FaceTime we scheduled a date, they came over, we filmed and all of that had happened between like Valentine's Day and the last day of February. So we filmed last day Feb, and then two weeks later, we're all in shutdown and I'm like, Oh, okay. But something really magical kind of happened when the entire Glamour team was here and they're here with their cameras and all of their lights. And like I'm seeing my apartment in a completely new way.
Because you know, it's, it's amazing what other people's perspective on a thing that's ordinary for you will do. And it really transformed the way that I looked at my space. It transformed the way that I looked at myself as somebody who had a story worth telling and worth sharing with people. And I'd always felt like I really wanted to be a sort of personality in the food world, but hadn't taken the steps to do it mostly because I wasn't sure how, and so it was something about seeing it so attainable, like here in my home that made me feel like, okay, I guess I've got like, I, it was almost like giving myself permission to do it now. And I was like, yeah, this is really dope. So like two days after they left, I went, I got I bought it, I bought a camera, I got soft boxes, like really cheap ones from Amazon got tripods and all this stuff.
And I'm like, I'm just going to set it up exactly how they did and just see if I can't make some videos for the fun of it. Well, those arrived two weeks into quarantine. And I was like, Oh, this is great. I will just shoot videos for people about things that they can make when they don't have groceries at their house. Like, here's some really simple, delicious things you can do using probably whatever you've got and then whatever you're able to get your hands on in the chaos that is the grocery store. And most of my audience, most of my friends like live in the New York area. So we're doing a lot of bodega shopping. We're doing a lot of like, you know, corner store over here over there, but there aren't really, I mean, I live in New Jersey, so of course we've got like super huge grocery stores, but in New York it's like, you know, Trader Joe's.
And I wanted to really kind of speak to that. I wanted the food to be accessible. So I just started doing recipe videos and sharing that. And that has been like the decision to do that, even almost kind of on a whim, has been the thing that has propelled the next six months of this career shift, which has been really, really, really insane. But that was kind of that like two week period was really like the defining moment. And what's happening in my career right now, which is really insane, now that I'm saying that out loud,
Derek Horn:
That's really awesome. Yeah. I love that spirit of kind of scrappily hitting the ground running with the resources you've have, like you said, you didn't get super fancy equipment or anything, and you just went with what you had. It's similar to how I'm approaching this podcast. Even it's like, you could very easily get down the rabbit hole of spending thousands and thousands of dollars on fancy equipment. But that's the beauty of a lot of the technology we have right now is you don't need a ton to get started to put creative things out into the world. It's also super exciting that right now you're about to launch your first cookbook, Early Enough. What was that like putting that together under these unique circumstances?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. The cookbook writing process was something I kind of decided on a whim. I'd maybe had like 10 videos out at that point. Lots of things from the cocktail space to the, you know, to food, to dessert done a little bit of everything, hopped on the Dalgona coffee trend, the banana bread trend, everything that could be done during quarantine. I did it and I probably did it on camera. What really kind of made me think was like, where do I want all these things to live? I think something that's really important for folks who are either beginning to gain like, you know, social media attention, whatever the case might be as you're sort of brand building and even honing in on a brand is you want to have a place to send to people. And I wanted something to show my expertise in a particular subject and the Glamour video kind of bolstered that for me in one way.
But that way was very experiential. And as I moved into my love for teaching and really found myself like absolutely loving the teaching experience, I'd hosted like my first virtual cooking class online. It was comfort with Courtnee. And I came out of it just like adrenaline high. I need to write a cookbook. And it was like I said it to my boyfriend. He was like, what? And I'm like, I'm gonna write a cookbook. And he was like right now, cause we'd always joked about like, I'd always said, this is the thing that I do when I'm like 30. Like this is something that I want to do when I'm like, you know, the next Martha Stewart. And I've got years upon years upon years of knowledge to share with people. But then I thought about it and I'm like, why am I gatekeeping myself from this thing?
I've clearly got the information, I've got the creativity. I have a passion for writing. Why not kind of put all these things in one place and make this a resource for people because people really do appreciate my food perspective. And it was a little bit of, again, I kind of a theme for me is constantly kind of giving myself permission to explore and like be crazy with, you know, the things that are going on or realizing the things that I think are crazy are actually super attainable and just going for it. And that was one of those things. So at first it was like, okay, I made it up in my mind, I'm going to write a cookbook. I went to Instagram and I told people, Hey, I'm going to write a cookbook. And like, kind of, didn't say squat else about it for like weeks at a time.
And everybody was like, so when's the cookbook coming? When's the cookbook coming? And at first it was like, okay, like, I'll drop an ebook. I started like gathering recipes. I'm like, what are all of my favorite things? What are my favorite themes? What food do I really enjoy? Where do I kind of get to tap into myself the most?
And that for me kind of happened in the brunch space. Brunch was something that I really became passionate about when I first moved to New York. It was one of the only times I ever went out in New York, like in the, in the city, like not during the week today when I was like working. And it was just such a, like a culture hub for me frequently go like by myself, like just want to Sunday morning, wake up and like go to whatever brunch spot and just like hang out there and like sit at the bar and watch people.
And I've learned a lot about myself kind of in that process of coming into the city and exploring and doing it solo. So I wanted to write the love letter to brunch. You know, with all of the experiences, the New York has kind of given me as a Southern girl trying to just like figure shit out. And it was like, Oh shoot, this is such a no brainer for me to write about. Like, I have a lot of experience eating this cooking this for other people. And because of my bartending experience, I was able to really like hone in on what my niche is, and that is the experience of cocktail pairing with dishes. So I wanted something that kind of took the guesswork out of it for folks. I feel like, you know, brunch is something that also gets kind of gatekept by elitism.
But it's really meant to be a much more communal experience and I wanted to provide access to luxury in a cookbook. And so the more I started thinking through like, what are my favorite recipes? What is my origin story? And brunch, it all just really started to kind of flow for me. So there are multiple sections. But that process, yes, was I think it's, it's one that requires, I think, a great deal of introspection which I feel like I've learned, I learned so much about myself in the midst of writing this because not only are you working through the actual content of the book, you were thinking through the creative direction of the book, you're thinking through, at least for me I painted all the backdrops in the cookbook myself, and it was because I wanted this thing to just like pop with all of like my personality.
And so I got to incorporate a lot of, you know, my other loves into the book as part of the creative process, just a lot of fun. I got to design the cookbook myself. But the other piece that you learn is really project management and that piece was so much harder than I thought it was going to be. I struggled with the, you know, the proper balance of timing for a photo shoot, and then the time it was going to take to finish writing the copy for the book versus the content in the book, what does the actual recipes themselves, and then sending that off to an editor and getting all those edits back, but then maybe they're not worded the way that you want to. And then you've got to find somebody who's going to print your book and then you have to go through that process of making sure that like your pagination is right.
And like, there are all these like little tiny details and the research that goes into it, I really felt like a second job, but when it went off to print, it's almost like this moment of like, okay, I I've done it, the baby's baking, you know, and it'll come back to me and it'll be the way that I needed to be. And it's just been really, really rewarding, but it has also been a lovingly exhaustive and isolating sort of work. You are spending a lot of time in your thoughts, so much of it. And thinking about food and really thinking about the why's of your, of your food which again, such a transformative process for me, but, you know, I've, I've spent every day in my house for the last four months working on that when I was finishing my full-time job on a daily basis. And I think I've spent a combined at least 20 hours a week, were going to the cookbook from like July on.
Derek Horn:
I really think it's awesome that you went for it and you trusted yourself and you trusted your knowledge and the fact that you could do it. I think so often we can talk ourselves down from taking bold leaps like that. I mean, I even had it with the podcast, where I'm like, Hmm, I don't know if this is something that I should be doing. Why do people want to hear from me or whatever. But then I think taking that leap is a really scary step, but it can be super rewarding. And I love how you acted upon that stroke of inspiration and whatever. Cause I know that if you lose that sense of inspiration, that can be super hard to, if you did end up putting a bookmark in it and said, Oh, I'm going to come back to this later. You might not have that same zest or oomph you had four then. So I really loved that following those threads of inspiration, because I think that those definitely lead to some of the most fruitful projects.
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. I can also say that a large part, I'd say actually 75% of why I opted to spend as much time on the book as I have is because once I kind of shared, Hey, I'm going to write a cookbook. It became an opportunity to really crowdsource people's opinion on my food. And that crowdsourcing is kind of what brought me to like the full combination of like what it became. So my plan was originally just to drop an e-book and then, you know, I could call that both an educational tool and an additional, you know, income stream. Right. especially now in the pandemic, because I wasn't doing dinner parties and I wasn't baking. So it was like, it would be really nice to kind of have a place to drive people from my videos and you know, everywhere else. And the thing that pushed me into sending it to like print was that there were so many folks who were like, Oh, yours is the first cookbook I'll ever buy. I can't wait to put it on my coffee table.
I did not tell them that. I never told them I was giving them a physical book, you know? But the assumption that I was really made me explore what it could look like for me to do that. And it was what made me take it so seriously. And it was what prompted me to really want to work with like a professional food photographer and all of those things. Whereas it would've maybe been like iPhone shots, you know, and nothing's wrong with that because you've got to work with the resources that you do have. But it really just kind of challenged me, but in the most encouraging way, because once I had shared it with people, even though the responsibility of it was mine, it felt like it belonged to a community. And that was what gave me the sort of peace to make some of the decisions that I was making the heavy ass investments that I was making the dollar that's what does making and Lord knows the time. Because I knew that it was going to people who really appreciated my work.
Derek Horn:
That's awesome. Yeah. And I imagine for a lot of other creators that, that crowdsourcing and kind of that community engagement, it seems in your case, it was mostly a positive experience, but I can also see how that could be potentially a double-edged sword at times. I imagine that must require this balance of listening to people that follow you and like what you do, but also trusting your own gut and intuition to not completely follow that stuff out the door. How do you filter through some of that feedback you get from your community?
Courtnee Futch:
I think that I'm relatively, I mean, you know, there are so many people who've been doing this in the industry for years and years and decades, even longer than I have. But what I always kind of rely on and I I've coined this little phrase with my therapist is the Expertise of Courtnee. And I know what I know, I know better than anybody else knows what I know. And it's been really helpful for me to kind of rely on my knowledge of self and my knowledge of intention. Because I think intention maps interpretation. And for me being intentional about how I want to show up in, in food specifically has kind of allowed for me to navigate other people's opinions about what my food should look like or the sort of things they wanted to see in the cookbook, by being able to hone in on what their intention is, and then be able to interpret that for myself as well.
So I'm always kind of thinking through like how do I filter other people through the lens of me and how do I translate that on plate? And it's been really, really helpful. So like people will make just the most like random suggestions, like there's a girl who, I shit you not, the last five months has been asking me to do a pasta recipe. I haven't done it yet. I don't like pasta. I'm not a pasta person. Right? But I've been developing pasta recipes kind of one, because that ask is there. And two it's, how do I take this thing that I don't necessarily always enjoy? Just because I, you know, for whatever reason, personal preference, whatever the case might be and channel it in a way that's something that I would enjoy, that's also authentic to me. And I'm not just shelling out recipes because people ask me for them.
Cause if that's the case, you end up with a really uninspired dish. But if I take the time and like sit with the pasta and like, think through what are like, what are the things that, how do I incorporate, what are some of my signature flavors when I deliver that back to everybody, it's going to be a really representative, pasta dish, even for somebody who initially was not so crazy about pasta. Like I needed to be something I could swear by. And so I think yeah, it's that combination of like intention interpretation and like, how am I translating myself into the wishes of other people?
Because again, and the funny thing about art or, you know, any of the creative labors I always called them like the expenditure of creative currency, whenever we're spending our creative Guernsey on something, it does have to be an exchange or something, right? So it's either the opinion of people or the opinion of, or, you know of feedback or for literal the exchange of dollars. And when we're doing that, we have to be at least somewhat mindful or open to some of that feedback. But I think what makes people particularly successful in that creative space is how you take the things people are telling you about your work and translate them back into something that is even more of your work.
Derek Horn:
So what is a misconception that people have about your work and what do you think that they're getting wrong?
Courtnee Futch:
Okay. So I think this is the case across all of the creative, yet physical labor industry. But particularly with chefs, the same way that people do this with designers, the same way that they do it with photographers our, that our talent and talent tends to be like a fairly natural thing that talent, that instinct does not require skill. And in order to really work in this space, it is a combination of talent and skill. And I think that often gets taken for granted. People will, you know, say things. I saw something that was so infuriating the other day about like, girl. You can't really be, it wasn't to me, but like it was somebody on Twitter saying like, you know, I'm tired of designers saying that they're booked and busy, like just open up Photoshop and drop some colors in there.
And it's like, sweetheart, no, there is so much thoughtfulness that has to go into a proposal for a design. You have to think through people's branding, the intention of the messaging. It is really truly work. Like it is it's work that requires like both emotional intelligence, as much as, you know, like just regular intelligence and you have to be able to, to strike that balance. But then you're also delivering on work from other people. And if the people could execute on their own vision, they would do it them damn selves. But because they, you know, either need help with that translation, it's like now you have to kind of get into their head. And that is a process. And people take the length of that process. I think for granted, they take the ease of that process for granted. It is not as simple as me just like drawing up a new menu for you.
I need to understand so many other factors that are going to go into the delivery of this proposal. And I think that's something that people just kind of, they get it wrong with creatives often because we are usually driven by our love and our passion for it, as opposed to like, Oh yeah, I went to school for this. So this is the thing that I do. And I think, you know, a lot of people have a hard time grasping that. So I'd really love for folks to be more mindful in the way that they're approaching creatives in their work. When requesting things, when, you know, asking for pricing and proposals that is really, really, really, I hear it all the time. I've got friends all across the industry and all of the creatives, we all have the same concern. But particularly in the food world, it really is trying not to strip yourself down in the process of meeting deliverables for other folks as well. And that's a constant balance too. So yeah, I'd say that's my main thing.
Derek Horn:
I totally agree. And echo all that stuff. I mean, speaking as a brand designer myself, I think that the experience in years that you have that go into your craft, that's all stuff that goes into the final price point that you're paying for these services. There's this quote from this designer Paula Scher that's "It took me a few seconds to draw it, but it took me 34 years to learn how to draw in a few seconds". And I think that like, especially creatives, where you're starting out, you might take a little longer to get to a deliverable or a product and you should charge for that time. But also as you get older and you might be able to do things a little quicker, you know, you have a bit more experience under your belt, you're not just charging for that short period of time. You might be executing you're charging for all that knowledge and all those hours that you spent to accrue that. So I think society as a whole, doesn't put enough value on all of the labor that goes into creativity.
What are your primary methods of communication with the people you work with and has that changed at all? And is there anything you want to keep going for the long haul, post COVID?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. I think that, Oh, COVID has really forced me, I think, to be more communicative. I am a person who I like having people in my space and usually food fills in for me where words don't or where words haven't. One of the things that I've loved, particularly in the teaching aspect of my career now has been the fact that the people that work with are people who were looking to learn from me, but I am also learning from their experiences with me. And so with every iteration of the cooking classes or with every iteration of a recipe that I put out, I'm getting that immediate feedback of, Hey, it'd be really helpful if you explained this step or the questions that folks will ask are usually the most telling about my points of improvement. So would be like, Oh, Hey, I saw you added water, but it wasn't listed in the recipe.
And I'm like, Oh, shoot my bad, you know, brain lapse. So that's been really, really, really incredibly helpful. It's kind of forced me to refocus on making sure that my communication is as clear as I think it is. Cause I'll get, you know I talk to people all day long who were just like me and we're all like, we're all kind of like, you know, we're, we're speaking the same thing. But having to translate that for other folks and make it accessible for them and make it attainable for them has really been like the biggest communication lesson that I've learned. And as far as like communicating with the team, I work with a lot of like freelancers. So the thing that I've learned there is writing it out and being as clear and concise as possible for me more detail, like the most detail that I can give, like even to the point that it seems redundant and remedial has been incredibly helpful for me in getting the results that I want the first time.
And I will never take that for granted again, I've always just kind of assumed like, Oh yeah, you know, they'll get what I'm talking about. And I've seen even through like the cookbook editing process that is not necessarily the case. And and you have to then also find people who are going to be able to match to you kind of synergistically. And that was like the last that's like the last piece, of course, you know, you kind of start there and then you, you know, make sure you over-communicate and really make sure that the words and the language that you're using are accessible for folks, but it really kind of starts with like finding those synergies in your teammates. Like my editor I'll be working with probably for the rest of my life now that we've established, you know, what our communication patterns need to look like.
Derek Horn:
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I think especially when you're working with you're collaborating creatively with people, be it a true, like a true collaboration, like one-to-one or a client and contractor relationship that over communicating, especially now when you're not in person and not able to do those things necessarily as closely as you want to. It is so key. I know as a designer, it's like we've in my agency, we've received many briefs from clients before that are a little later on details than we might've liked. But, and then I think that at the end of the day, it just ends up everybody, like either we'll spin, our wheels are going away that isn't where the client was thinking. So I think that it just, it benefits everybody from having that crystal foundation at what you're, you're starting off on, and then you can hit the ground running from there. So totally agree with that. A need for over communication rather than under communication.
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah, exactly. And I will just say one last piece about that. The, another thing that I found to be incredibly helpful is that sort of visual, like story-boarding particularly with the cookbook, of course, but like even when because right now, like I'm looking into videographers and sending them very clear examples of like here's some of the elements that I would like to see. You know, here are the things that I'm going to be very happy and also being able to lay out for them visually here are the things I absolutely want to avoid. Like here are my non-negotiables I think in the creative space and when you are paying someone for deliverables, but their editing process may be completely different. It is really, really, really important to have that sort of clarity on what would make you happy. And then you have that. That's also something I've learned. I had to learn about my self was how do I want to be shot? And the great thing is I was able to figure that out in, in my own, playing around with, with video and things. So now those are notes that I'm able to pass on. So I always say like, you know, your, your, your best trial and then once you've kind of figured out how you want things done when you're doing them yourself, it's so much easier for you to translate that for others.
Derek Horn:
Yeah, that, that, I mean, that's something we do with our job too, is we do this visual exercise with our clients where we walk through examples of visuals where the client's able to point to, Oh, I like this for X, Y, Z reasons. I don't like this for X, Y, Z reasons, just because I think the visuals are just such a, it's like a picture is worth a thousand words in many ways, because otherwise you get into the game of, Oh, I want something that looks really modern looking and that word modern can mean 500 different things to 500 different people. So the pictures speak for themselves. And I think that that, or other visuals, video, sound, what have you, I think it's, it's really great to have that kind of inspiration to use as a springboard.
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Derek Horn:
What has been the most unexpected habit or hobby that you've taken on this year?
Courtnee Futch:
Ooh, this is such a great question. It's something that I actually really want to get back to now that the cookbook is like in production. I kind of feel like I have my life back. And so I'd have to say my favorite hobby, something that I'm actually like, do I want to continue doing this? Even though this project is over, it's actually creating photography, backdrops. Like, I think I love that. And it's been really crazy for me because I've always loved art. I've always liked painting. It's something that I really like kind of dug my in on last year or maybe earlier this year, who knows all the whole things blended together, but I really like started getting into painting. I was like, very excited about kind of portrait work, but in like a very kind of like, I don't really know what to call the style that like I've tapped into.
But I've been loving it. And so now that I'm like playing around with like all of this paint, I was like, Oh, like, let me do this for the cookbook, because I kept like watching these YouTube videos and I'm like, everybody kind of has like a lot of the same backdrops and one that's really fricking expensive, but two, I just wanted something that just felt like it just screamed Courtnee. Like even if I didn't know what that meant. And even if other people don't know what that means, when it's translated onto a backdrop, I want something that's like, so freaking Courtnee that like, that's just that and that's that on that. So that is something that I think I really want to like get back into if, for nothing else than to just have the craziest freaking catalog of backdrops for photography that I at least get to use for myself.
But it is something that I'd also like to make super accessible to other like up-and-coming or like upstarting, you know, kind of food photographers. I think it could be really fun and it's been a fun challenge for me. Like I made 42 individual backdrops for the cookbook and it was insane and I loved it and I loved every part of it. And I was just in here, like me and my little paint rollers, just getting it every single day for like a week straight. And I totally just want to get back into that and just like make a whole bunch of them and who knows, maybe like just put them all over the wall one day and be able to pull them down when I want them, but it was so much fun. And I think I'd like to do that again. And maybe if it ever makes sense, like sell them to people. I don't know.
Derek Horn:
I love that. Yeah. I think it's very important to have this kind of outlets for creativity or just even just straight up relaxing outside of your day-to-day work. Or even in your case, your day-to-day work and your personal ventures, but I, I think that it's really awesome how that can come and be infused in and inspire your other work as well.
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. It's it's been a lot of fun. It's I like that all of these little passions of mine are tied together. It makes it easier for me to flow between, you know, between them. But I think at the same time, it also makes it more challenging to step away when I actually do need the break. And so I'm trying to find other unattached hobbies. And that is like my new goal. My goal for 2021 is to find some hobbies that are not related to the ways that I make money. And I've got to figure out what those are, cause all the things that I like I've turned into business.
Derek Horn:
Yeah. That's a great goal to have. I guess it's also a great segue to the next question is have you faced mental health challenges this year and how have you worked to cope with them?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. Oh my gosh. So I got really, really lucky at the top of the year. I'd actually been looking for a new therapist. I've seen a therapist for almost two years a few years back, like from like 2017 to top of 2019. And I just was like, okay, like at a point it was just like, this is exorbitantly expensive. Let me just kind of chill out. And it was something that I really wanted to make a habit, but also do it like more consistently, like on a weekly basis. So when January rolled around, I started looking but I hadn't found anyone yet. And then funny enough, I was able to in the midst of quarantine bind my therapist, who's based out of DC. So we do teletherapy, which is great. I'm super flexible with my schedule. I have been, I think navigating balance as part of my mental health journey.
I've never been one as big as I am on providing like comfortable, cozy, safe, happy, calm spaces for other people to sort of celebrate themselves. I do not do that often enough with my self. And so my, my little golden rule of hosts is how you want to be hosted. Has not been something that I've had the luxury of applying to myself this year. And it has been really, you know, challenging. I was saying earlier that writing the cookbook has been pretty isolating work. So my therapist and I have been talking about like, how do I want to find ways of engaging that are not exhausting to me. And that's been a really interesting conversation to have because I feel like I'm learning a lot about what my preferred communication styles are and what are the sorts of things I need from people when I'm so used to people needing things from me That has been, woo. We've been unearthing some shit, so that's a lot of fun to do. But yeah, I think the main thing has just kind of been like combating that feeling of loneliness in the work that I do because I do make a product for other people to consume, but it's a lot harder to engage with folks about my food, with the exception of them consuming the materials.
Derek Horn:
Yeah. I'm glad that you're unpacking that stuff and figuring out ways to find that sense of balance because at the end of the day, you can't really pour from an empty glass. So that's great.
Can you tell us about a moment of clarity that you had on your journey to where you're at now and how has that figured into your arc as a whole?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. I think my like peak kind of moment of clarity I think can be summed up. I mentioned it earlier, was this piece about giving myself permission. But to expand on that, giving myself permission is about giving myself permission to see myself the way that other people see me. Oftentimes we're usually like our hardest critics. And you know, we fail to give ourselves the grace that other people are so willing to extend us simply because we deserve it. Not because of the accomplishment, not because of the incredibly hard-fought work that we do, but because we are all deserving of high levels of grace for ourselves and with each other. And that, that moment of clarity for me really did happen when the Glamour team was here. And it's something about somebody holding a mirror up to you and saying, we think like, partly, you know, obviously it's my therapist and I talk about this too.
It's not healthy to rely on the validation of, you know, who you deem are, the who's who kind of in your, in your space. But that was kind of the, the prompt for me of having like this, this organization be like, Hey, we kind of, we actually think your shit's pretty cool. Like what's, what's up with that. And it gave me the wings that I needed to actually say that out loud. I'm like, actually, yeah, I think I do have something to offer people. And it was a really happy space for me when I kind of figured that out and then started putting out work that allowed other people to other people like my peers who were closer to me to be able to say the same things. And at that stage I was actually able to hear them. So it was really, really, really transformational for me that like one month period at the top of quarantine really changed my entire life.
And yeah, like I'm, I'm super thankful. Everybody has just been like so wonderful, super supportive. I've been able to get on the internet and vent about the things that I'm experiencing and like the struggles that I'm having and, you know the, the self-esteem challenges that can sometimes come with, you know, the desire to be a semi-public figure. And in that transparency, I've been able to really open up to people and people have opened up to me and I've gotten a lot of new insights from that. So it really has been like a life changing, you know, a period of time, but that clarity came from, you know, them being here and me seeing my space in myself completely differently and all it took was some lights.
Derek Horn:
That's great. Yeah. I think that chasing that kind of external validation through people or awards recognition, things like that, that can be a very dangerous game. And one that often can be very damaging to your mental health and self-esteem and things like that. But I think that your anecdote is a perfect example of how they can kind of help boost you when you may need it, but not necessarily, you're not following the pursuit of that stuff, always out the door. So I think that that's kind of a really healthy way to approach those types of things. Starting to wrap things up one day, this challenging period will be behind us. When you think of that day, what are you hopeful for?
Courtnee Futch:
Ooh I am hopeful for, Oh, this is such a good question. I think the primary thing for me is I would like to have more clarity in what next steps are. And by next steps, I mean, for what I'd like to be doing with my overall career I've already decided that, that I'd love to shift into the like teaching space for food, like almost exclusively and be able to host dinner parties, not as a primary source of income, but as an expression of the food that I want to share. The dinner party is very much so started off as a wage, do that. And then I realized, Oh, there's money in this. And so then it became a business and, you know, kind of getting outside of the need to exert physical labor in order to be able to share my food experiences with people. So whether that's through the cookbook or more classes, or, you know I don't know anything YouTube or whatever the case might be. I would really love to see that kind of be the full depth and breadth of where I am sharing my food with folks. That would be a very happy place.
Derek Horn:
That's great. I noticed on your website that as an Atlanta native, Southern Hospitality is the first golden rule that you learned. Is there anything that our listeners can take away from the concept of Southern hospitality, even if we aren't in the world of food?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So it's funny because that golden rule is Whoa. Well, okay. So it's either a host or hostess the way you want to be hosted. And it's something that I have both been applying to others my entire life. And most recently I'm learning how to apply to myself. The concept of host is saying, is one about instinct to about thoughtfulness, but also about holding space for people that is literally what hospitality is about. It's about holding, you know, safe spaces or happy spaces or spaces of relaxation for folks. And the instinct for that maybe doesn't come to everybody naturally, but there are a bunch of ways that we can be thoughtful about the experiences that we curate for other folks when they're near us. And that's been such a large part of my, my upbringing. I saw that, you know, first and foremost from my mom who was just one of the most incredible hosts, but also applies the concept of hosting to her daily life.
And that the doors that kind of open when you do that with with a truly warm spirit, have just been incredible to see both for her, for me for friends who have what I call the hosting spirit. So that is something that I think thoughtfulness can be developed and thoughtfulness in hosting can be developed. And that doesn't just apply to when people are in your physical space, but the way that you maintain your relationships, the way that you hold on to your friendships the way that you go to work. And when you are thoughtful about how people are in your space, those spaces improve significantly. So that's been my little golden rule and it really has done a world of good for me.
Derek Horn:
That's an awesome place to wrap things up. So where can our listeners find you and find out more about your various ventures?
Courtnee Futch:
Yeah. so I am on Instagram at @courtnee.mfchef The MF does not stand for mofo is just my middle initials, but I refuse to change it at this point. I've had it for too long and the cookbook is available for pre-order on the website thundercakes.com/earlyenough
Derek Horn:
Awesome. Well, thank you for coming and chatting with me today and hope to speak to you soon!