Derek Horn
Welcome back to In These Uncertain Times, a podcast about creating and connecting in the midst of uncertainty. I’m your host, Derek Horn.
Welcome to the first episode of 2021 and I couldn’t be more excited to kick off a fresh roster of incredible guests with someone who has what is possibly my number one dream job.
Marcos Bessa is a Design Manager at the LEGO Group and the Creative Lead for the LEGO Harry Potter franchise. Marcos was a member of the Adult Fan of LEGO, or AFOL, community before he was hired as a LEGO designer in 2010 and since then, he’s worked on award-winning products for franchises including Marvel and DC Superheroes, Disney, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, Jurassic World, and The Simpsons. Outside of LEGO, Marcos is a writer, illustrator, and singer-songwriter and has competed on Denmark's Got Talent and the Voice Portugal, where he reached the Semi and Quarter finals, respectively. He is a native of Paredes, Porto in the north of Portugal and currently lives in Denmark with his partner and French Bulldog.
So something that you may not know about me is that I have been a massive fan and collector of LEGO since I was a child. I became familiar with Marcos and his work through various forms of LEGO media and fan community engagement. As I started to look for guests outside of my immediate network, I reached out to Marcos via Instagram DM and was thrilled when he responded and agreed to be interviewed on the podcast. Marcos is my first guest from outside of the US and we had a great conversation about all things LEGO, his experience living and working through the pandemic in Denmark, and how he finds the motivation for his many other creative pursuits outside of his very creative day job.
Hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did!
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Well hello, Marcos, thank you for joining on In These Uncertain Times. How are you doing today?
Marcos Bessa
Hi, Derek, thank you for having me. I'm very good, and very excited about our conversation.
Derek Horn
Cool. To get started, can you introduce yourself to listeners in your own words?
Marcos Bessa
So I'm Marcos Bessa. I am a Portuguese toy designer working for the LEGO brand. So I create LEGO toys in Denmark. I am 31 years old. I am a gay man in a very happy relationship with a partner that is almost now in five years, I think we're getting into our road towards five years. I have a French Bulldog that I love called Conrad. I love making music on my spare time in all kinds of different creative outlets that I can find to express myself in.
Derek Horn
Very cool. And congratulations on being my first guest outside of the US. How has COVID-19 and this year, in general, been in Denmark?
Marcos Bessa
I think it has been a little bit like everywhere around the world, unfortunately. And we have, we've been fortunate enough to to have a somewhat controlled situation throughout most of the year. And we had some measures that were put in place for protection and that the general population have adhere to and have respected and so things have remained somewhat in under control for the most part of the year. We're now naturally seeing some tightening of those rules, because it is winter, people are more indoors, it's there's a higher risk of being exposed to the virus, so we're seeing a little bit of tightening up of the rules now. But yeah, it has changed a lot on what we do and how we do things and has completely turned our lives upside down. But I feel like everyone around the world has probably felt that to some degree.
Derek Horn
Totally. So I know that creating and building LEGO is such a physical experience, and from what I've seen, the company has a strong culture of collaboration. What has it been like for your team to change your way of working, and it seems, go remote?
Marcos Bessa
Yeah, we had to adjust a lot of what we do. So for the most part, the design work, we try to keep it protected as much as possible in the company. So although we started working a lot more from home as much as possible, and relying on 3D software for concept work and 3D building of sketch models, we still have been going back to the office on a somewhat regular basis and getting to touch the bricks in physical form and actually building in and doing somewhat the same tasks that we used to do before because it is still fundamental to our work. We just have adjusted in the sense that we reduce the amount of people in the office. So we create a bit more social distancing opportunities, we try to have more repercussions in handing over things between different stakeholders and being protective of those things that we would hand over to again, minimize risks.Yeah, it was just finding new ways of doing the tasks that were fundamental for our work in this new context.
Derek Horn
What does your personal workstation or workplace look like? And how often are you going between home and the office?
Marcos Bessa
Most of the time this last year, my workstation has been my dining table in the dining room at home and been sitting there and having most of the time Conrad, sleeping on my lap, my Frenchie. So very unusual and special work workspace. But I have been going on a weekly basis to the office, I think at least once or twice a week. I've been in the office, getting to see some real people in the work and actually interacting with them and touching the bricks and, and, and really playing with LEGO bricks as has always been a big part of our job. So yeah, trying to remain sane and in touch of reality, or the old reality that we used to know.
Derek Horn
Totally. Are you guys like bringing bricks home to work with? Or pretty much keeping that mostly in the studio?
Marcos Bessa
Yeah, exceptionally throughout this year, we have had some opportunities to bring some stuff home. So whenever we are not dealing with super high confidential things that relate to movies out there, and things like that, that are external to us, then we have had a little bit more freedom to adjust. So therefore we brought some things home but always been very careful and very protective of our secrets as well.
Derek Horn
Right, I can imagine. What are the primary ways that you and your team communicate and have those strange at all? Um, because of COVID. I know, for me, it's like at my job, it's kind of this, we always have to over-communicate, just because there's this extra virtual barrier, and people are in their own little bubbles.
Marcos Bessa
Yeah, for sure we have adjusted as well, in terms of communication, I think a lot more emails have been exchanged, you know, things that usually we would just get up from our desks and walk towards someone else and just have a two-minute chat and solve something. Now it requires a lot more chewing on the details and writing down things and exchanging emails, or even just put on a calendar, a new meeting in the calendar and which also floods your calendar fairly quickly. And I feel like we've had a lot more online meetings than we used to have before. And everything has to become a meeting because you have to find the time to align with people rather than just passing by them started to have a lot more regular check-ins with different stakeholders, again, to make sure that we are in touch, and we don't overlook anything that would otherwise be covered by the fact of just being around each other. And in terms of tools, we use Microsoft Teams, and it does the job. It's become our kind of right hand for the most part of the daily work. It's incredible how fundamental it has become.
Derek Horn
Yeah, is there anything that you have all discovered that you think "you know what, I know the situation isn't great right now. But maybe that's something you can keep doing for the long haul once COVID is hopefully over with"?
Marcos Bessa
Yeah, I think one of the good things that we've identified in our design team, in particular, is that being apart, especially in the beginning of this pandemic, where we, we started being apart and away from the office, we felt the need to make sure that we were not literally drifting apart so that we were actually staying in touch at both on a personal level as it as team members, you know, but also work-related tasks. So we started putting what I was just mentioning, you know, these more meetings and checking things on a regular basis to ensure that we would be in touch and have a dialogue and make sure that each of us were aware of what everyone else was doing. So that we could still have this collaborative dynamic that was so natural for us when sitting next to each other. I think that is a good learning, because maybe we thought we were having the best by sitting next to each other or close by. But actually, now we probably got closer. Yeah, I might become me or by not, I don't want to use the I didn't want to use the word forcing, but by kind of putting it in the calendar in somewhat some way forcing it to happen more regular, really, we become closer. And we feel now that all parties of the team are more involved in the work that we're doing. And I think that's a great benefit that we hope to continue even when we are out of this strange time.
Derek Horn
So I know for a lot of LEGO fans like myself, it's like, the idea of being a designer at LEGO is kind of like a dream job. What does your day-to-day look like? And what kind of things maybe surprised you most about getting that role that people might not expect?
Marcos Bessa
Well, as a LEGO designer, most of your days spent surrounded by LEGO bricks. And I think that's not necessarily something people don't expect. On the contrary, I would assume that everybody envisions it to be like that. And that's certainly something that I think if it hasn't, I think it might have even surpassed my expectations when I first started because I thought that it would have been, you know, somewhat more of a "job" in the sense that it couldn't be just fun. And it couldn't be just stuff that I could get energy and love out of. But in reality, at least for me, all the tasks that are related to creating the toys, and in designing the experience around the toys, is the most fulfilling part of my job. And it is, as I dreamt, if not more.
Now, what it is me that maybe people don't expect is, there's a lot of thinking behind the toys that we put together. There's a lot of testing, there's a lot of validation that we put in, in all fronts. And I think a lot of people out there maybe even more, the fans of LEGO, think that maybe we just have fun building a LEGO set and, you know, build something that looks cool. And that's it. That's about it. But no, it actually we take very seriously the consumer that we are targeting with our product. We do a lot of research about what can kids do and not do at certain age marks in terms of what do they understand from our building instructions? How well can they differentiate bricks? What are their motoric skills to even just handle certain shapes and certain techniques? And we take a lot of that into consideration when designing the products. And so there's a lot of problem-solving and in engineering and in maturing of the ideas that maybe is not to the degree that people out there imagined.
Derek Horn
Right, right. And I know, I know, there's like a very vocal online fan community that are like, "oh, you're making a Star Wars Luke's Landspeeder again", and like things like that, or "oh, you're making this model that doesn't look as beautifully finished as I would want it to." And I just like being working some is somebody that works in creative services myself and knows how the sausage is made behind the scenes, I totally understand that there's so many of these other things that are going on behind the scenes that they don't necessarily understand, particularly testing, and the fact that you're talking with consumers and understanding what they're wanting. And then also, I know that LEGO works with so many licensors, and like, you have so many other IP, intellectual properties, that you guys have to guess, I'm guessing work with those teams to make sure that they're up to their standards as well. How, how do you balance that kind of fan input with, like, the strategic and creative goals of both LEGO and your IP partners? If that makes sense?
Marcos Bessa
Yeah, you know, primarily, it starts as a collaboration between when it comes to these IP properties, it comes as a collaboration between us LEGO and the IP franchise that we're working with, and you're totally right, we have to work with, with these teams that protect their franchise, and, and make sure that it is represented in the best light that is true to their story or to their values and, and delivers products that they also want to have on shelf with their branding on. We don't necessarily go a lot after, and personally, I don't necessarily go a lot after what, and now this is going to be controversial, what the fans say. I don't pay too much attention because of what you just said, you know, fans can be cruel, and they don't know what's behind things. And I get it because I have been on that side as well. I have been a LEGO fan before I got hired. And I had my opinions. And I had all the thoughts of things that should have been made and things that I didn't need, and that I didn't understand why they were being made. But now being on the other side. Yes, it makes more sense. And not to say that everything now suddenly makes sense. But you know, a lot more make sense. And I get it that it everything happens, influenced by a mix of so many things. But yeah, I would say that we start by looking at what is it that we're trying to do as a company? What is the consumer that we're targeting? And what is our IP partner, if that's the case of having an IP partner wants to do as well or wants to have on the shelf. And then that usually results in very, very strong products. And you know, history tells and we've been fortunate enough to put out their products and whole product lines that have been very well received by our target audiences and sometimes also by adult fans that might not have been the target audience to begin with. And that's always very satisfying to see. And, ultimately, our goal is to have something out there for everyone. And yeah, and I think that as long as there's someone out there that loves what we do, then we're doing something right.
Derek Horn
Yeah, I really love that's one of the things I think this year it's been, it seems like it's been actually really great timing with all the great, bigger, more adult-targeted models that have been out there. I'm sure that y'all weren't expecting this everybody to be home and kind of having a time, hobbies...
Marcos Bessa
We had some insights of COVID coming... I'm completely joking.
Derek Horn
So that it's been really been incredible. I mean, it's speaking from my perspective, that's one thing that I mean, I've been collecting LEGO since I was a kid, or as a kid. And this year is like, I thankful enough, I've been able to keep my job and have a steady source of income. But I'm not going out to eat as often, I'm not going taking trips or vacations, so a lot of that expendable money that I have, I've been spending on LEGO. And it's been really great to get my hands on some of these sets that maybe in another year I might not have been able to afford. And, yeah, so I'm actually starting to run out of room in my tiny one-bedroom, New York apartment. But hopefully one day soon, I'll be able to change that.
Marcos Bessa
And the secret is hanging some shelves on the wall and start, you know, piling things up.
Derek Horn
Totally. So yeah, I gotta work on that, that type of setup. But what is, um, what's your favorite set, or project or line that you've worked on in your time at LEGO?
Marcos Bessa
Hmm. Well, I have been very fortunate with the projects I've been assigned to, I've had the privilege to be part of because I've always been very, very passionate about the different projects that I was on. I started at LEGO 10 years ago and the first project that I was assigned to was LEGO Superheroes and I'm a huge fan of superheroes. I grew up watching a lot of cartoons that I loved. I wasn't necessarily so much into the comics, because it wasn't something that I was exposed to much to. But I cartoons I grew up loving, and then the movies and so that I was very, very fascinated about. But then it had a downside because being part of the project, I was getting to read a lot of the scripts to three years ahead of time. So it was spoiling a lot of the fun for me when getting to the cinema and watching the movie. So actually, I enjoyed to step away from the project and get to do something else, and then become that fan of the superheroes again, that gets to enjoy the movies, without knowing anything without spoilers. But I do miss the project anyway because I do love it. And I think it's such a rich universe. And it's so much fun with the things you can do with those characters. And also the creative liberty that the partners that we work with both DC Comics and Marvel, allowing us to, you know, to take some liberties here and there and explore sides of the characters that maybe we haven't necessarily seen in some of the mediums where they show up and be able to tip to tell our own version of stories and adventures. That's always very much a lot of fun. Yeah, maybe that's the one I would highlight, but I loved a lot of them.
Derek Horn
That's awesome. I know that the LEGO designers like putting like little easter eggs in the sets. Be like, move your pop culture references or even like the designers’ initials. Do you have a favorite easter egg in the set? Either one that you're responsible for or somebody else?
Marcos Bessa
Hmm. I have, yeah, I have a tendency to sneak in my date of birth, or my favorite number 28. whatever I can. There's a there's a big chance if you find a random 28 somewhere, there's a big chance that maybe it was it had something to do with me, but at least a lot of times and I think I have also squeezed in a few Portuguese flags here and there, like brick-built detailed flags. There's one in particular hidden in Helicarrier, yeah, speaking again of LEGO superheroes. I designed the Helicarrier for Marvel Avengers A few years ago, a massive model and at certain at a certain point in the model, as you're building it, you get to build a little Portuguese flag with red, yellow and green plates and it's hidden there and it's easy to access. So if you want to eventually show or find it again, after you've finished building, it's easy to access. But yeah, there was no purpose for it. There was no justification other than there was a little space and I thought it would be fun to have my Portuguese flag there.
Derek Horn
Nice. So knowing that you have a job that requires so much from you creatively, how do you find the time and energy for your other creative pursuits, like your music?
Marcos Bessa
You know, I think each of the different things that I get to do that, you know, that stretch my creative side, they are so different. And I feel like they take something so different out of me, or give me something so different that I find. There's always space as long as time allows, there's always space in me, or in my mind, space to do it, if that makes sense. Now, the time there's, there's only so many hours that the day has so there's only always a limitation to how much I can actually carry on a daily basis. So I do find myself often having to prioritize, or at least, you know, shift from one outlet to another for a period of time. I don't get to do everything I want to do all at the same time all the time, because it's just not humanly possible. But yeah, I think it's just the fact that each of those things gives me so much in such different things.
Derek Horn
Totally. Has there been any sort of unexpected habits or hobbies that you've picked up this year?
Marcos Bessa
Yeah, this year, I have, actually, I returned to something that I had on pause. So last year, I was very much focused on music, and I was working on an EP that I really wanted to wrap up, and I had been writing some music for it for the last two, three years. So it was kind of, you know, really focus on wrapping that up and getting that music out. And once that it was out, then I as I was saying, then I shifted to something completely different. And then I started putting time again, on an illustration project that I have, and I've had for nine years now. It's gonna sound like a little plugin now, but I'm gonna say it anyway, it's called younamit.com, you're welcome to go and visit. But it's basically a project that I started about it is about creating illustrations based on this silhouette of a character and, and I get to do illustrative work that I don't normally do at work at LEGO, I work with LEGO bricks, I don't do illustrations. So I get to create these character design and do illustrations and all the work around that project connects to some, there's a charity dimension to it, I create designs that eventually I try to sell in some different ways. And whatever income I get through their project, I then donate to a charitable cause. That's something that it was important for me to establish as part of the project because it is the right motivation that I need to keep coming back to it. So that's the thing that I came back to in 2020, was pick up on that project, you know, update the website that had been, you know, left without love for a while, create a few new designs, update the shops. I've been working on in the last few months, as well as creating some new products and ideas that I want to bring into that umbrella.
Derek Horn
That's awesome. So knowing that, hopefully one day, this challenging period will be behind us. When you're imagining that day, what are you most hopeful for?
Marcos Bessa
It's gonna sound cheesy, but it's I think most people probably relate to: It's just being able to be with my family and, and hug them and not worry. I was fortunate enough to go back home in the summer to see my family and I hadn't been I hadn't seen them for a whole year. So I couldn't wait anymore. It was important for me to go there and see them. But of course, I had to take a lot of precautions and care that I normally wouldn't. So keeping the distance wearing the masks and not being able to touch a lot of them and that's really tough. Especially, I'm not wanting to stereotype, but I'm Portuguese and we're very deeply warm and close and, you know, people that I grew up in a small town surrounded by my family so I have a big family that I'm close to and being a part in Denmark, in general, all the years has been already tough. Then in these particular conditions that have limited is able to have it with them. It's been the toughest part. So I think that's what I'm looking forward to the most is to just be able to be with my family in normal times.
Derek Horn
Yeah. And that's not cheesy at all. I think many of us are feeling the same way. So wrapping up, is there anything that you want to plug? Anything else you want to plug for listeners? I know you mentioned your website there and where can they find you online?
Marcos Bessa
Well, if anybody's curious to know a bit more about me, I have my personal webpage marcosbessa.com. And in there, you can actually find links to my music, my socials, my writing, my illustration, design, and even my LEGO portfolio so you can get to see what products I've been responsible for, or get my hands on throughout the years.
Derek Horn
That's awesome. I'll be sure to link that in the show description. All righty. Well, thank you so much for joining today. I hope you and your family stay safe and healthy and have a happy holiday. And Happy New Year. My
Marcos Bessa
I hope the same for you. I wish you all the best. Happy Holidays, stay safe, stay sane and healthy as well. And make sure you look after yourself and the ones around you. And thank you so much for the invite. It was a pleasure.
Derek Horn
Take care!
Check out Marcos’s website
Follow Marcos on Instagram: @marcosbessaofficial
Check out Marcos’s Design Charity Project Website, Instagram: @younamit